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Author Topic: So Gush AND Frantic Search are back...Are you going to play them in Combo?  (Read 3260 times)
Meddling Mike
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« on: September 27, 2010, 02:54:51 AM »

So, two cards that have potential applications in combo come off the restricted list and it doesn't seem to be getting much chatter. Some questions that came to mind:

1) Does Gush belong in combo?
2) Does Frantic Search belong in combo?
3) Do they belong in combo together?
4) How much does the metagame effect the answers to the first 3 questions?

1) Gush Belongs in Combo Because:
a) It's free storm
b) It's free card advantage
c) It can potentially generate mana

Gush Does Not Belong in Combo Because:

a)if you're not in the process of going off it's typically not a spell you want to cast.
2) Frantic Search Belongs in Combo Because:
a) Itís potentially free storm
b) Itís letís you draw more cards and get rid of dead cards
c) It can potentially generate mana
d) Really fun to cast with floating mana after tangle wireís ability resolves
Frantic Search does not belong in Combo Because:
a)You didnít bother with it as a 1 of, did it get any better by being a 4 of?
b)Itís card disadvantage
3) The main question here is whether or not these cards are synergistic and better than other options in the deck.
a) They have synergy in the sense that Gush puts 2-4 cards into your hand and Frantic Search letís you get rid of dead cards and potentially get better cards in exchange for discarding them.
b) They are anti-synergistic in the sense that Frantic Search untaps lands in play and gush returns lands in play to your hand.

4) I tried cramming Gush and Frantic Search into a Bob Storm frame by cutting the Dark Confidants, Top, Preordain, Cabal  Ritual for Gush, Frantic  Search, Fastbond and Crop Rotation. I retooled the mana slightly to accommodate the green for Fastbond and Crop Rotation.  I noticed immediately that the deck had completely lost itís ability for the long game with the loss of Dark Confidant. In a lot of matchups if you could get a Bob to stick you could ride the card advantage to victory. The replacement cards did little to get you out of a tough spot, but were great when going off. It lead me to question if the power level of the cards made up for the loss of resiliency in the deck and if I was sacrificing that resiliency would I be better served with a more explosive version of the deck with Ad Nauseum? I think maybe with decks with 13 sphere effects out there maybe concentrated less resilient storm combo decks are no longer the optimal build of this deck.
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Commandant
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 11:17:45 AM »

I would like to try Frantic Search in a Confidant Tendrils shell - replacing See Beyond/Preordain, two cards I have been rather unhappy with.

I believe Frantic Search is more viable than Gush due to the lower cmc/lack of land loss; and should be played in addition to Confidant.

Free.
Filters.
Pitches.
Fuels Will.

FWIW:

Main:
1 Necropotence
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Rebuild
1 Brainstorm
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
1 Gifts Ungiven
3 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Frantic Search
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Mind's Desire
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Senseiís Divining Top
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest

Board:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Yixlid Jailer
4 Duress
1 Perish
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 10:14:46 PM by Commandant » Logged

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meadbert
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 04:01:16 PM »

How is Frantic Search better than Careful Study?
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 05:45:08 PM »

How is Frantic Search better than Careful Study?

1) It's an instant.
2) It untaps lands...lands like Tolarian Academy
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Commandant
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 05:51:26 PM »

Instant.

Most of the time I find myself Storming on or after turn 3, with enough mana on the board I would prefer a free Storm enabler that also has the potential to color fix and produce + mana (Tolarian Academy) as opposed to a 1 cmc that does not.

Doesn't get locked out by Chalice of the Void at 1.

Untaps under Tangle Wire.

Edit: English.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 06:01:06 PM by Commandant » Logged

Quote from: David Ochoa
Shuffles, much like commas, are useful for altering tempo to add feeling.
vassago
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 07:02:37 PM »

I have been using both in a version of the deck called "Almost Blue".

My conclusions would go along with some of what has already been said here:

Gush sucks unless you are going off. I haven't been using drain either, which makes it virtually useless unless you are combo'ing off. At least it pitches to Force of Will. The only use I have had for Gush with Frantic Search is that it helps off set the loss of cards while going off. This is of course aside from Fastbond which is obviously retarded.

Frantic Search is surprisingly enough the card I am most happy with.  It has been an excellent set up spell, and a great combo enabler.

Also, I really like High Tide.   Very Happy
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Commandant
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 09:06:35 PM »

After throwing a list together and tooling around with it, I'm starting to agree with point #4.

The replacement cards did little to get you out of a tough spot, but were great when going off.

Perhaps my choice of a shell is poor.
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Shuffles, much like commas, are useful for altering tempo to add feeling.
Doomsday
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 08:40:35 AM »

I'm not playing either in TPS or (obviously) ANT.  I'll play 4x Gush in Doomsday.
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