TheManaDrain.com
July 22, 2014, 12:26:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bobby Tendrils Lines of Play  (Read 2735 times)
Soapbot
Basic User
**
Posts: 39



View Profile Email
« on: September 13, 2010, 05:23:06 PM »


Im a pretty good tendrils player, but to reach the next level with Bobby Tendrils, TPS, or even JaceStorm, There are Lines of play
that can either make or break the game. Sometimes you will lose on turn 11, but you really lost on turn 3, because you chose a different line of play. This is what makes these typ of decks very rewarding, yet very frustrating.

I see these type of decks almost like life, one so so decision, like getting an ok job instead of going to college could
not pay off as much in the long run. Or hooking up with the wrong girl, could have repurcussions later...get it? everything is connected

So I don't want to talk about "mistakes" that are unforseen e.i. Force of Will, but making the most Optimal Play when given a series of plays to chose from.

Here is my deck (to save time I just listed the cards that might not be in other decks)



All Power, All Artifact mana, Scroll, Force, Chain of vapor, Rebuild, Hurkyl's Recall
2 Jace 2.0
Lotus Petal
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Bargain
3 Bobby
Mind's desire
Mana Vault

So assuming my opponent isn't playing Force or maybe even 1, what shoud I do if My opening hand consists of these cards???

{Mana Crypt, Underground Sea, Mox Pearl, Brainstorm, Merchant Scroll, Demonic Tutor}

There are so many plays to choose, how can I win with this hand uncontested???
what about if its Force of will Contested ????

Just want some input, feel free to put up your own hands so we as a community can decide which is the most optimal play.
754,000 heads are better than one

Logged
honestabe
Basic User
**
Posts: 1125


How many more Unicorns must die???


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 05:26:43 PM »

If you knew your opponent was playing without force of will (some sort of beatz deck, for instance) I'd play out the land and lotus, and then merch for ancestral.  The 4 cards you see on your 2nd turn more likely than not wins you the game.

If your opponent is play force, then I'd just play the land and hold up for an EOT brainstorm
Logged

Quote
As far as I can tell, the entire Vintage community is based on absolute statements
  -Chris Pikula
Soapbot
Basic User
**
Posts: 39



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 07:04:06 PM »

If you knew your opponent was playing without force of will (some sort of beatz deck, for instance) I'd play out the land and lotus, and then merch for ancestral.  The 4 cards you see on your 2nd turn more likely than not wins you the game.

If your opponent is play force, then I'd just play the land and hold up for an EOT brainstorm

Sounds like a good plan,


What if thehand consists of

{Recall, Mox Ruby, Confidant, 2 swamp, Vampiric, Dark Ritual}

After you cast confidant, would you use the vampirice at upkeep? or wait? If you were to use it, what would you tuor for???
Logged
Bill Copes
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 879

I don't have an avatar. I am an avatar.

zebraturbosled
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 07:45:54 PM »

Quote
After you cast confidant, would you use the vampirice at upkeep? or wait? If you were to use it, what would you tuor for???

I'd wait a turn or two, to see how aggressive my opponent's game plan is, and to let confidant reveal the direction you need to go.
Logged

I'm the only other legal target, so I draw 6 cards, and he literally quits Magic. 

Terrorists searching in vain for these powerful weapons have the saying "Bill Copes spitteth, and he taketh away."

Team TMD
Tobi
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
**
Posts: 847


Combo-Sau


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 09:43:37 AM »

As a rule of thumb, I always go for the quickest possible bomb wasting as few as possible ressources.

The hand of
Mana Crypt, Underground Sea, Mox Pearl, Brainstorm, Merchant Scroll, Demonic Tutor
is not very easy to play correctly.
If opp doesn't play Force, it would make sense to Demonic for Lotus, sac for UUU, Scroll for Anc and Ancestral yourself, then you still have 1U open and Brainstorm. Continue depending on what you draw.
If opp plays Force, you may either
- play Land and Mox, and Brainstorm on opp's EOT
- play just like if opp doesn't have force (Demonic for Lotus etc)
both has it's merits.

For the hand of
Recall, Mox Ruby, Confidant, 2 swamp, Vampiric, Dark Ritual
obv you start with Swamp Mox Confidant.
Vampiric on upkeep depends on the Confidant card and on opponents behaviour. Possible targets are Mox Sapphire so you can Ancestral, or Necropotence. The Mox-Anc move dodges Spell Pierce.
Logged

Tonmehr
Basic User
**
Posts: 22


We were friends, but then I realized I could win.


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 10:14:10 AM »

Hey I too love Storm and dissecting the lines of play.  Could you please post a complete list.  I would like to see your sideboard too.  Sorry for the trouble
Logged

No rest.  No mercy.  No matter what.
Rico Suave
True
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 799


Omnibrad
View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 12:40:45 PM »

The problem with these sort of plays is that they are way, way too broad to cover.  Take this one:
{Recall, Mox Ruby, Confidant, 2 swamp, Vampiric, Dark Ritual}

The only thing I can realistically say here is "I'd wait to see what my opponent does, then go from there."  I think that reasons are more important than the actual line of play, but in order to come up with reasons we first need to know what we're dealing with on the other side of the table. 

If we are on the draw we might not even continue with our plan of first turn Bob.  What if they play a Sphere?  An Oath?  What if you see a Bazaar of Baghdad?  What if our draw presents another option?  There are dozens of possibilities and it's impossible to say what is correct without having a framework in which to work.  I'm not trying to say that this is a fruitless activity, but it might help if you provide more details.  Lines of play typically revolve around what the opponent is doing, at least as far as I'm concerned, and not some kind of goldfishing exercise. 
Logged

Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.

-Team R&D-
-noitcelfeR maeT-
Soapbot
Basic User
**
Posts: 39



View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 01:21:20 PM »




The problem with these sort of plays is that they are way, way too broad to cover.  Take this one:
{Recall, Mox Ruby, Confidant, 2 swamp, Vampiric, Dark Ritual}

The only thing I can realistically say here is "I'd wait to see what my opponent does, then go from there."  I think that reasons are more important than the actual line of play, but in order to come up with reasons we first need to know what we're dealing with on the other side of the table.  

If we are on the draw we might not even continue with our plan of first turn Bob.  What if they play a Sphere?  An Oath?  What if you see a Bazaar of Baghdad?  What if our draw presents another option?  There are dozens of possibilities and it's impossible to say what is correct without having a framework in which to work.  I'm not trying to say that this is a fruitless activity, but it might help if you provide more details.  Lines of play typically revolve around what the opponent is doing, at least as far as I'm concerned, and not some kind of goldfishing exercise.  


well, what ur saying is true, what the opponent does, will play a factor in your decision making, but no matter what situation you are in, you are still going to need to make the best play regardless. If we are working with hypotheticals sure anything could happen and nothing. Ok so what if they do have Oath...they're is an optimal line of play (even after you cast Bob) that you will still have to commit to in order to win the game or buy more time to win the game. Same with Bazaar and Trinisphere.

So with an oppening hand of
{Recall, Ruby, Confidant, 2 swamp, Vampiric, Dark Ritual} if the opponent drops oath on thier turn and passes, What is a good (not even optimal) line of play,
Note: You will be thinking at this point what can vampiric tutor get, because you are on a 2-3 turn clock.

Every deck has a set strategy, its just that Bobby tendrils has to do a little more twists and turns to make everything come together, so "waiting to see" what your opponent does sometimes isn't the most optimal play.
Also, note that the starting hand is very important for this deck because something you do on turn 2, ends up becoming a factor later on because of the fragility
and power of the deck. not to mention there is little redundancy. So I'm just saying with the opening hands, which path(s) would you take.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 01:29:53 PM by Soapbot » Logged
desolutionist
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 751


ldzppln796
View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2010, 10:23:18 PM »

I learned this at Waterbury:

If you're opponent is Stax, lead with Dark Confidant rather than Necropotence.

Necropotence is probably a card worth cutting...  Maybe for Wheel of Fortune or 3rd Preordain.  I also think Jace is subpar.
Logged

Tobi
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
**
Posts: 847


Combo-Sau


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2010, 01:03:48 AM »

Necropotence is probably a card worth cutting...  Maybe for Wheel of Fortune or 3rd Preordain.  I also think Jace is subpar.

I hope you are not serious about Necropotence Smile it is the best bomb in this deck and I cannot remember a single game I lost after resolving Necro. Well ok, sometimes you draw dead and are left with one lifepoint and nothing to do, but that's really rare.
The value of Necropotence increases dramatically if you play Forces, but even in a build with Duresses I'd never cut Necro.

I agree on Jace though. Great card, but in Bob Tendrils I'd rather have a Top.
Logged

Zieby
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 256


One who goes unpunished, never learns.

ajjbos@hotmail.com ajjbos
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 04:58:52 AM »

[These statements are made from someone who plays Jace Storm (without Bob))

I Play Necro, Jace and Top.
Necro is a complete bomb and let you control the game due the massavi card advantage you have over your opponent.

Jace wins games, especialy against STAX when you can resolve one and with 2 or 3 global bounce in the Maindeck and 3+ answers against Stax in the Sideboard this is not that difficult.

Top is important to sculped your hand and to be able to float some cards on the Top of your library.

Logged

Quote from:  Mr. Chapin
"Rogue is spelled with the "g" before the "u." Rouge is a cosmetic used to color the cheeks and emphasize the cheekbones.
Rogue is a deck that isn't mainstream/widely played."

Member of Team R&D: Go beyond Synergy and enter Poetry

Founder of "The Dutch Vintage Tournament Series"
Soapbot
Basic User
**
Posts: 39



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 12:45:40 PM »

Jace pitches to Force, and bounces Iona, not to mention crazy advantage with confidiant. Top is kewl too
but...

Do not let the topic of this post change. It is about Bobby Tendrils and lines of play.

So with an oppening hand of
{Recall, Ruby, Confidant, 2 swamp, Vampiric, Dark Ritual} if the opponent drops oath on thier turn and passes, What is a good (not even optimal) line of play,
Note: You will be thinking at this point what can vampiric tutor get, because you are on a 2-3 turn clock.
Logged
Lemnear
Basic User
**
Posts: 330



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2010, 01:10:26 PM »

I guess vamp 4 necro, play it, draw 12 and hope that opponent doesn't hit iona 4 black?!
Logged

Member of Team RS (Germany)
Killane
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 778

My King is my friend- you should meet him!


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2010, 03:40:50 PM »

I guess vamp 4 necro, play it, draw 12 and hope that opponent doesn't hit iona 4 black?!

agree. Hopefully you are running some bounce spells, so you can boucne it if they do hit Iona and name black. Kind of scary if you're not. If there was a blue source I'd be tempted to Vamp for Chain of Vapor so you can bounce the Oath dude, but there isn't so that's neither here nor there.

Edit: If you are running Ad Nauseum, I'd be tempted to get it instead and try to win right away.
Logged

DCI Rules Advisor
_____________________________ _____
Are you playing The Game?
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.125 seconds with 20 queries.