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Author Topic: The Dark Times Primer  (Read 55285 times)
Stormanimagus
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« Reply #390 on: December 11, 2012, 12:46:52 AM »

splashing green is also great for dr. shaman. Shaman is great on the play vs. shops. That would be my choice personally.
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« Reply #391 on: December 11, 2012, 05:31:14 AM »

IIRC, this deck has also been played with bazaars. I'd play them to quickly fetch for the combo, and I'd play them with crucibles. Getting rid out of cards is not so bad with liliana, and after all Y.will would improve. Besides, playing it with tarmos could be top.

Have you tried expedition map? seems a good option.
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« Reply #392 on: December 11, 2012, 09:38:00 AM »

splashing green is also great for dr. shaman. Shaman is great on the play vs. shops. That would be my choice personally.

The shaman was actually fine with mono black, as it added the mana and served the purpose vs snapcaster.  Removing the critters rarely became an issue except vs dredge, where needles/strip did the job just fine.  The problem with shaman was I always felt I was cutting something more valuable for a situational card that was sometimes just a cheap 1/2.  I think with tarm, decay, and claims, I wouldn't have any issue with shops anymore other than getting locked out early or chalice@2.  Does chalice stop abrupt decay?  It's a trigger, not a spell or ability...so I don't know if that would totally lock me out or not.
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #393 on: December 11, 2012, 11:04:30 AM »

splashing green is also great for dr. shaman. Shaman is great on the play vs. shops. That would be my choice personally.

The shaman was actually fine with mono black, as it added the mana and served the purpose vs snapcaster.  Removing the critters rarely became an issue except vs dredge, where needles/strip did the job just fine.  The problem with shaman was I always felt I was cutting something more valuable for a situational card that was sometimes just a cheap 1/2.  I think with tarm, decay, and claims, I wouldn't have any issue with shops anymore other than getting locked out early or chalice@2.  Does chalice stop abrupt decay?  It's a trigger, not a spell or ability...so I don't know if that would totally lock me out or not.

Chalice is rarely what locks you out vs. shops. Sphere of Resistance + Lodestone Golem + Tangle Wire ARE. The whole reason this deck used to suck vs. shops was because it used to run 1 Lotus, 1 Petal and 1 Jet as mana accel that can come into play on turn 1 on the draw. if they go turn 1 sphere turn 2 Golem turn 3 tangle you are all but boned. And that opening happens a lot for shops so losing the die roll used to = game loss. D. Shaman changes some of this math alongside some Jewlry. I agree that Chalice isn't the issue anymore with cards you can run like Decay and even Cavern of Souls. But SPHERES are the problem and my point is that Deathrite Shaman IS one of the best things you can do vs. them. It isn't replacing better cards cause it IS the better card vs. shops.
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« Reply #394 on: December 11, 2012, 11:15:18 AM »

abrupt decay cannot be countered, so chalice does not stop it. however, it can be misdirected, for example.

On the other hand cards with split second get countered by chalice of the void, but cannot be misdirected.


Shaman has a control function, and it's a bit weird (but not necessary bad) in this deck.
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ericdm69@hotmail.com MrMiller2033 ericdm696969
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« Reply #395 on: December 11, 2012, 03:27:29 PM »

Would you suggest replacing rituals with shamans?  They'd slow down my turn 1 plays, but add to my turn 2 ability perhaps.  I'd also then have to choose between turn 1 duress or turn 1 shaman, whereas before I could turn 1 ritual, duress, confidant.  I am not sure what i'd cut for shaman other than rituals.  The rods and needles are too good and my only defense vs waste on my depths.  The missteps have become decays, the obliterators and one needle and 1 arena have become tarmgoyfs...what's left to cut for shaman?  Basilisk collar is more odd, but it really has an enourmous function in this deck with the lifelink and deathtouch on first strike weenies.
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #396 on: December 11, 2012, 04:09:16 PM »

Would you suggest replacing rituals with shamans?  They'd slow down my turn 1 plays, but add to my turn 2 ability perhaps.  I'd also then have to choose between turn 1 duress or turn 1 shaman, whereas before I could turn 1 ritual, duress, confidant.  I am not sure what i'd cut for shaman other than rituals.  The rods and needles are too good and my only defense vs waste on my depths.  The missteps have become decays, the obliterators and one needle and 1 arena have become tarmgoyfs...what's left to cut for shaman?  Basilisk collar is more odd, but it really has an enourmous function in this deck with the lifelink and deathtouch on first strike weenies.

Needle isn't a good 3-of. I would certainly cut that to 1. Honestly, my old versions of Dark Times ran 4 Wasteland and a Strip mine and that was a perfectly viable option for beating opposing wastelands. Just waste their waste before you drop the depths.

Also, Obliterator is aweful. It costs 4 and you already have a 4-of that makes a 20/20 flyer. Why would you run Obliterator? I'd run Desecration over obliterator anyway if I wanted to go that route. Can you offer any justification for such a clumsy and slow card when you already have a great finishing combo?

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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #397 on: December 11, 2012, 08:10:08 PM »

Would you suggest replacing rituals with shamans?  They'd slow down my turn 1 plays, but add to my turn 2 ability perhaps.  I'd also then have to choose between turn 1 duress or turn 1 shaman, whereas before I could turn 1 ritual, duress, confidant.  I am not sure what i'd cut for shaman other than rituals.  The rods and needles are too good and my only defense vs waste on my depths.  The missteps have become decays, the obliterators and one needle and 1 arena have become tarmgoyfs...what's left to cut for shaman?  Basilisk collar is more odd, but it really has an enourmous function in this deck with the lifelink and deathtouch on first strike weenies.

Needle isn't a good 3-of. I would certainly cut that to 1. Honestly, my old versions of Dark Times ran 4 Wasteland and a Strip mine and that was a perfectly viable option for beating opposing wastelands. Just waste their waste before you drop the depths.

Also, Obliterator is aweful. It costs 4 and you already have a 4-of that makes a 20/20 flyer. Why would you run Obliterator? I'd run Desecration over obliterator anyway if I wanted to go that route. Can you offer any justification for such a clumsy and slow card when you already have a great finishing combo?

Needle certainly is good as a 3 of.  Even a 4 of.  Yes, I can waste in response to a waste, but then I'm replacing 3 needles with 4 wastelands...so what space am I getting to add in shamans there?  Also, if I waste in response to a waste, they can 2 for 1 me killing an urborg.  They can cut me off a second color (if I choose to run it) before I even have depths.  And if they have 2 wastelands?  or waste and crucible?  The needles, as I've stated in earlier posts, are crazy useful as a single needle shuts off four waste or 4 bazaar or 4 jace or 4 mishras factory, or 4 welder, or 4 knight of reliquary, or 4....I think you get it.  It's a 1 for 4, not a 1 for 1.  It can also proactively protect all of my nonbasics, not just depths.  Adding in the crucible + 4 waste plan costs 5 more slots, which the 3 needles helps mitigate the need for and save some slots.  While also being good against non-land threats.

If shops goes turn 1 sphere, turn 2 golem, turn 3 tangle, I'm not resolving any spell that doesn't cost 0 anyway.  So unless I decide to run 4 FoW +12 blue, I'm not getting out of that scenario anyway.  I'd wager the same is for any deck that doesn't run FoW/dredge.  How good does any deck not holding FoW do vs turn 1 sphere, turn 2 golem, turn 3 tangle?  That's gg 95% of the time, so that doesn't really help much.  Shaman doesn't help that match in any way if I lose the die roll.  Turn 1 sphere, pass....land, go...turn 2 golem, pass....turn 2 land, go....turn 3 tangle, pass...scoop, gg.

Obliterator would probably be replaced with tarms if I go green, but you are asking why I need a fatty?  Well, it is a secondary combo with ritual....turn 1 duress, turn 2 ritual, obliterator.  That's quite imposing to any deck running critters of any type.  What happens when the opponent drops needle or revoker naming hexmage?  Do I just scoop?  Do I think I can race with a deck of just 8 2/1s?  Same for when they drop more than 1 wasteland.  How about killing a hexmage and extracting?  Or how about chalice@2?  yes, sphere, golem, tangle is a backbreaker, but do you realize they can kill all of my wincons in a single turn 1 play with shop, mox, chalice @2?  No hexmage, no confidant, and no depths (unless they're going to give me 10 turns to pay 3 mana). Chalice @1 cuts off almost every useful spell outside of my win cons...but chalice @2 hits every wincon in one shot.  Obliterator gives me a non-2cc win condition that is effectively a moat or an unblockable 4 turn clock that I can drop with disruption on turn 2.  It may not be the best, but it's not awful.  And it's certainly one of the better options for monoblack.  I have a great finishing combo, but it is also a very disruptable combo by any bounce, plow, needle, revoker, or the most commonly played answer - wasteland.  It's also a 2 card combo, where obliterator can come out on his own as a big threat.

DT had its weaknesses, and probably still does, but I think one of its biggest issues was that it was too linear.  Stop the hexmage from pulling off its trick and you've beaten the deck, plain and simple.  Obliterator may not be the best, but it's an attempt to get more aggro to shift more easily into a beatdown plan B.  Against fishy decks that had plows and wastes and maze and karakas and sb extractions, it added a nice wall to buy me time to dig out of a hole.  I still run the 4 hex/4 depths, but I try not to just scoop if they somehow take hexmage out of the equation.
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« Reply #398 on: December 12, 2012, 04:49:49 PM »

Another thought, as a way to help vs the shops match:

What so we think about a sb sol ring/mana crypt to help attain mana? Shaman is nifty and might even earn a main slot or 2, but it is situational.  Without adding 5 waste/crucible, more null rod and cutting needles + 5 other cards to make room - which totally changes the focus and versatility of the deck, there are many times there are just swamps on my side of the board and shops/tombs on their side...with no land in the grave.  The mana I can get off shaman won't be played into by competent opponents, so it will many times be a vanilla 1/2 vs shops early on.

Ring/crypt aren't affected by golem and add a big unconditional mana boost on turn 1. Crypt is riskier due to damage, but it can also be cast off a swamp through a sphere or thorn.  That can allow a turn 2 hexmage, even through double spheres.  Maindeck, I feel I am still not running enough colorless to warrant their inclusion, plus run 2 rods.  But sb, they can give me the needed mana boost.  They're also not as vulnerable as tomb and the life loss of 3 every other turn vs 2 almost every turn is similar. If they drop chalice@0 against me, that's good for me since they just traded 7 for 3 and hit none of my spells. Tomb is a thought, but waste vulnerable and can't come in the same turn as swamp like a crypt can.

What do we think?

What cards do you board out of my list and what do you board in on mono black vs shops?
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« Reply #399 on: December 12, 2012, 11:24:44 PM »

the best card vs MUD in black IMO is Bitterblossom.  Yes its another loss of life source, but between bob/phyrexian arean/blossom, you should be so far ahead in CA, that MUD can't keep up, then u just win.
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« Reply #400 on: December 13, 2012, 08:47:16 PM »

the best card vs MUD in black IMO is Bitterblossom.  Yes its another loss of life source, but between bob/phyrexian arean/blossom, you should be so far ahead in CA, that MUD can't keep up, then u just win.

I tried the bitterblossoms, and they have been underwhelming.  They don't race shops, they just turn golem into a 20 turn clock.  The problem is they drop multiple golems quickly with metamorphs and 4 golem.  And then you can't cast any of your other stuff.  IF I have a bob or arena out from turn 1, I am losing 2 life a turn with blossoms - and I can easily draw 20 uncastable cards due to spheres and golems and tangles.  The blossoms do help mitigate tangles if I'm not chumping to survive golems.
Emissary is also slow as they will just 2nd turn out a golem and beat for 5 while I beat for 3 or 4.  Several decks around here also run precursor instead of smokestack, so rather than killing one permanent a turn, they gain a fast couple-turn stall off a pair of spheres or a tangle and then smash for 9 a couple times.
I'm thinking you are right in that hex/depths is my best creature approach...however I often don't have access to any more than 1 mana (the land I drop that turn) in my mainphase vs shops.  Almost never will you reach 2 mainphase mana on the play or draw, and rituals are worthless vs a pair of spheres.  The turn 1 sol/crypt can get me to two mana on turn 2 in my mainphase (enough to cast hexmage), because while they often drop double spheres on turn 1, triple sphere is rare.  With that thought in mind too, is Aether vial a decent SB option?  It's an extra permanent to tap while it ramps to 2, it dodges chalice @2 shutting me out, and it costs 1 mainphase mana vs golems.  Then within two turns I can push in hexmage and make a Merit.

BB really is slow.  I bought 3, thinking they'd be good...and they're just slow.  They're actually less effective than meekstone at slowing the bleeding.  They get easily swept vs blue decks (EE or clasm), and they just delay 1 golem vs shops while putting me on a clock that is compounded by almost every other life-sucking card in my deck.
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« Reply #401 on: December 16, 2012, 05:36:00 PM »

So I have new solutions, yet new problems.  Trying to stay monoblack:

1) aether vial + crypt + sol ring is fantastic vs spheres.  I almost completely escape problems vs tangles or spheres with these cards.  
Darkblast has been great in killing anything X/1.  It gives me great card advantage by seeing their bobs die while mine live.  I also sometimes surprise lodestones by making him 4/2 and blocking with a 2/1. Misstep, while useless mostly vs shops, has been good enough vs plows and 1cc blue spells to be okay as a 2-of.  Not enough to be dead often, but good enough to snag a key play like V.key, ancestral, spell snare, plow, TSZ, etc.

2) My problem now is chalice @1 and 2...moreso chalice @1.  C@2 hits all of my win cons except obliterator, but vials will come in anyway and dodge chalice@2.  C@1 on the otherhand cuts off my entire deck except for my 2/1 critters, liliana, arena, DT, and obliterators.  Also, my needles are cut off from stopping wastelands, which means my depths combo is bunk too.  I can't race golems and precursors and metamorphs with 2/1s.  By also hitting my rituals and sol ring, C@1 also means obliterators are cut off early too.
Now before saying I should run waste/crucible over needles - I tried it, and they suck.  Why do they suck?  Because a 1-for-1 instead of a 1-for-4 is not as good, but I can't even protect depths with wastelands.  If I try to waste their waste, they kill the depths or force me to make the token on my turn.  If I have 3 wastes out and they have none, they just need to rip a waste to force me into making a token.  And what happens when I have to make a token on the mainphase?  They metamorph/duplicant it.  And mud typically runs 3-4 metamorphs, so if they aren't locking me out with copied golems, they are 2-for-1ing me with metamorph on Merit Lage.  The thing overlooked about needle was that it always let me make the token at their EoT, dodging metamorph.  If I try to kill their wastes with my own wastes, I run the risk of them dropping crucible or another waste on their turn and forcing me into making the token which is then exiled or Legend ruled.  I was severely disappointed in wasteland's inability to protect my own depths when they have spells that can copy ML.

So...what can I do to get past chalice @1?  With red, i have some answers, but then a much limited SB since 4+ cards go to artifact hate.  My Sb basiclly becomes 9+ anti-shop cards with red added.  Does black have ANYTHING that can get past chalice@1?
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« Reply #402 on: December 16, 2012, 06:53:14 PM »

Engineered Explosives @ 0. If they are  dropping one at 0 in the early game then that is pretty poor vs you. however your lack of colourless lands means this is harder to do vs spheres
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« Reply #403 on: December 16, 2012, 07:01:13 PM »

Engineered Explosives @ 0. If they are  dropping one at 0 in the early game then that is pretty poor vs you. however your lack of colourless lands means this is harder to do vs spheres

Yes, I almost can't ever cast for 0 due to spheres.  Does anyone know if I HAVE to use colored mana when paying the +1 for a sphere?  If I want to drop EE for 0 and pay B to pay for the sphere cost, does it make it an EE for 1?  In this case, I think ratchet bomb is better, as it has utility vs oath and other decks too.
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« Reply #404 on: December 16, 2012, 08:48:36 PM »

You were asking about chalice @ 2. rachet bomb seems pretty bad there.
 an acient tomb or two may be usefull for beating spheres but your B heavy costs might mean that is the wrong path to take
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« Reply #405 on: December 16, 2012, 09:04:00 PM »

Yeah...between aether vials and crypt and sol ring, sphere effects are no longer an issue so much as chalice @ 1 or 2.  Against a deck with chalices, I'm bringing in aether vials, so chalice @ 2 doesn't bother me so much as the chalice@1.  Chalice @1 really shuts down 80% of my deck, and my answers to C@2 and wasteland also.  It's just C@1 that is really an issue. I just thought of ratchet bomb after I posted...and it seems a decent answer.
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« Reply #406 on: December 16, 2012, 10:33:02 PM »

If I want to drop EE for 0 and pay B to pay for the sphere cost, does it make it an EE for 1?

Yes. Essentially, for every Sphere your opponent has, you will need one colorless mana in order to effectively use Engineered Explosives. For example, if your opponent has CotV at one, two, and two Sphere effects, you will need two colorless mana to destroy the Chalices.
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« Reply #407 on: December 16, 2012, 11:02:02 PM »

In that case, ratchet bomb is for sure the right play with mono black.  Now, since I have answers to mud with monoblack, is red worth it just to add rakdos charm and ingot chewer?  They'd take the place of ratchet bombs basically.  Is ratchet better overall than the trouble of going 2 color for some anti-artifact cards?
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« Reply #408 on: December 17, 2012, 06:46:01 AM »

Against chalice the best natural card seems hex parasite, after hexmage of course. Better than EE in Dark Times imho and dodges COTV at 2 (ratchet bomb). Besides is another card to combo (specially if hexmages have been removed) and deals with jace.

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« Reply #409 on: December 17, 2012, 10:57:37 AM »

Against chalice the best natural card seems hex parasite, after hexmage of course. Better than EE in Dark Times imho and dodges COTV at 2 (ratchet bomb). Besides is another card to combo (specially if hexmages have been removed) and deals with jace.



The prob with hex parasite is it costs 1.  C@1 is the one that really shuts down most of my deck and my needles, which stop wastelands from forcing me into making Merit Lage during a mainphase.  Vs landstill with wastes, they'll just force him into play, then bounce with Jace (which also won't be shut off due to no needles).  Vs shops, they just force the token and then metamorph/dupe him.

I CAN hexmage a chalice@1 into a C@0, which is a 1-for-1 that now shuts off only 2 of my cards, but 7 of theirs....so that's not terrible.  I didn't realize that until recently, so that was my fault for not seeing the obvious solution I already run 4 of main.  Hex parasite may be worth a couple board slots as they hit planeswalkers, tangles, and smokestack (not much played here).  But outside of Jace and tangle, and chalices cast AFTER I cast parasite, there's not many cards played with counters.  I suppose they ARE extra ways to activate depths...but a slow way at that.  Typically, I'll get a tutor or a vampire long before hex parasite can do its work.
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« Reply #410 on: December 17, 2012, 11:57:39 AM »

TBH, hexmage seems better than vial facing a chalice. I thought that was the main point of vial: stepping out chalice.

Are you afraid of chalice at 2? parasite and vial are options, and I prefer parasite.
Problems with chalice at 1? hexmage deals with it.

Vial seems quite slow in this "fast" deck. Would you open with duress or vial? Usually you won't have viat at 2 until turn 4.
Vial is another card to name with revoker (after hexmage, of course). So hexmage and parasite are, but they can block revoker.
There are few scenarios where I prefer vial than parasite...
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« Reply #411 on: December 17, 2012, 12:23:41 PM »

Chalice @2 got you down? Umm. . . Cavern of Souls! Cavern is great cause if you name shaman you can get d. shaman and vamp in 1 caverns.
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« Reply #412 on: December 17, 2012, 01:39:42 PM »

Tsabo's Web is a good way to beat Wasteland. Depending on how gungho you want to be about it. Of course, it costs 2 which is a favorite CotV # vs the deck as well.
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« Reply #413 on: December 17, 2012, 02:45:24 PM »

TBH, hexmage seems better than vial facing a chalice. I thought that was the main point of vial: stepping out chalice.

Are you afraid of chalice at 2? parasite and vial are options, and I prefer parasite.
Problems with chalice at 1? hexmage deals with it.

Vial seems quite slow in this "fast" deck. Would you open with duress or vial? Usually you won't have viat at 2 until turn 4.
Vial is another card to name with revoker (after hexmage, of course). So hexmage and parasite are, but they can block revoker.
There are few scenarios where I prefer vial than parasite...

Besides dodging Chalice at two (which would stop Hexmage anyway), Vial also dodges Sphere effects, which seems pertinent. 
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« Reply #414 on: December 17, 2012, 03:01:33 PM »

TBH, hexmage seems better than vial facing a chalice. I thought that was the main point of vial: stepping out chalice.

Are you afraid of chalice at 2? parasite and vial are options, and I prefer parasite.
Problems with chalice at 1? hexmage deals with it.

Vial seems quite slow in this "fast" deck. Would you open with duress or vial? Usually you won't have viat at 2 until turn 4.
Vial is another card to name with revoker (after hexmage, of course). So hexmage and parasite are, but they can block revoker.
There are few scenarios where I prefer vial than parasite...

Parasite is good at getting around chalice @2, but vial also gets around spheres.  I'd almost always turn 1 vial over a turn 1 duress vs shops.  I CAN pull out something their hand depends on, like sol ring or mana crypt to get a fast threat, but more likely I'll pull something they have 2 copies of (out of 12 sphere effects, 8 solo/mox crypt).  Golems and welder won't even get hit by duress, but only TSZ - and needles make welder a non-issue.  If I turn 1 duress and then they have a pair of chalices in hand, I really hate it since I'm then dependent on just drawing into a hexmage (and then needing a SECOND hexmage to make a ML token).  Vial dodges the chalice and all the spheres.  They can drop spheres and golem and tangles all they want and my vial will still ramp up and get a hexmage out even if I have 0 mana after turn 1.  With them playing 8 spheres that make hexmage cost more (vial also dodges golem cost), a turn 1 vial will get hexmage into play almost always the same turn I could cast it.  I think the dodge around chalice AND spheres makes vial a better option.  Also, against oath decks vial has use.  Not only can it dodge their counters, but oath usually runs few to no wastelands.  So I can play a depths, then EoT vial in hexmage and sac for the ML token without ever giving them an oath activation.  Dodging spheres, dodging C@2, dodging counters, giving my hexmage flash....those 4 reasons give vial the nod over parasite in most situations.
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Chalice @2 got you down? Umm. . . Cavern of Souls! Cavern is great cause if you name shaman you can get d. shaman and vamp in 1 caverns.
I love Cavern and thought about running it, but the obliterators, (before hippies), bobs, and hexmages don't share any types.  Also, most of my other spells cost B, so I can't duress or tutor or ritual off cavern. I MIGHT try adding 1 just as an extra bump vs counters and also chalice. I also have enough colorless-eating spells to make it useful to an extent. I think 1 could be useful without screwing my mana so much.  Two could lead to double cavern hands which aren't useful so much.  Perhaps 1 cavern over the 4th depths?  Multiple depths have been annoying at times if I can't get a liliana out.
I won't say Deathrite Shaman justifies it, cause I really haven't found DS to be worth it in testing.  I don't run wastes myself, so often the grave is empty of lands.  They're also not wastelanding my swamps, so again, no fodder for mana.  They also run no instants or sorceries to remove, so he's just a 1/2 that occassionally adds 1 mana.  Even his -2 damage by removing my own cast spells (when I get to cast anything) is not so great cause it can't race golem or even harm golem.  The time I need mana most is in the first couple of turns.  DS competes for my first turn play, but then often adds nothing until several spheres make it too late.  For the mana ramp, I find sol ring, mana crypt, and the vials are a much more suitable answer.
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Tsabo's Web is a good way to beat Wasteland. Depending on how gungho you want to be about it. Of course, it costs 2 which is a favorite CotV # vs the deck as well.
Tsabo's web doesn't work at all since they have to tap the wasteland for web to work.  Shops will just leave 1 wasteland untapped as an answer to ML.  By the time they tap it, they got their use out of it.
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« Reply #415 on: December 17, 2012, 06:21:14 PM »

Is Bitterblossom + Gate to Phyrexia too slow?
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« Reply #416 on: December 17, 2012, 10:07:19 PM »

Is Bitterblossom + Gate to Phyrexia too slow?

Resolving both 2cc spells against Shop would probably be a challenge even if we didn't consider Chalice@2.
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« Reply #417 on: December 17, 2012, 11:02:52 PM »

Is Bitterblossom + Gate to Phyrexia too slow?

It's slow in that each piece is only marginally useful on its own and affected by all 12 sphere effects that shops run.  It's a great combo if I can get it online, but that's a tough 2 card combo to play just to beat artifacts.  A better two card combo would probably be vault key...then just draw my deck and ignore the opponent (since I typically board out null rod vs non worker/forgemaster shop decks anyway).  I think the 2 card combo like that is too random though, and to go 4/4 with it eats my whole sb.  Each piece is okay on its own, but neither have the effect of aether vial or sol/crypt.  I was thinking more along the lines of single card answers.
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« Reply #418 on: December 18, 2012, 04:27:41 AM »

If you run green Root Maze and Tsabo's Web work very well vs fetches/factory/bazaar etc.

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« Reply #419 on: December 18, 2012, 07:37:24 AM »

I figured it was too slow. I've never tested either card though and was curious.

Green gives you a lot of answers at every CMC -- Nature's Claim, Deglamer, Sylvok Replica, Pernicious Deed, etc. I realize Replica is a little expensive at {3}, but it gets around Lodestone Golem and Thorn of Amethyst. It also blocks one Factory/Mutavault and Phyrexian Revokers.
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