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Author Topic: [Deck Primer]: Christmas Beatings  (Read 28542 times)
Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #120 on: January 18, 2012, 08:59:41 AM »

Vexing susher gives nice interaction on the stack :p But i'm not sure if CB really wants to compete on the stack, since it cannot have the same amount of counterspells. I see CB as an aggro deck with some static hate (null rod, chalice, thorn, wastelands/moons, now cage) and answers against most dangerous menaces, while providing a decent clock (in order to avoid opponent to recover).

Playing some counters as answers it's nice, but if you want to really interact with the stack competing against Big Blue, play blue.

Xouman is right.  The only reason to play Mental Misstep in XMas Beats is to fend off other Mental Misteps and hate cards like Nature's Claim and Chain of Vapor.  RG Decks aren't suddenly going to start packing all kinds of free counterspells to fight on the stack.  We're outclassed in that department. 
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Shax
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« Reply #121 on: January 18, 2012, 09:03:17 AM »

This deck becomes twice as good with the printing of the 1CMC Cage of destruction. Most of my struggles throughout success with this deck came to... Oath, Dredge, Tinker/Y.Win. Soo... now I feel like this deck can climb the mountain and make itself known as a solid contender in most given metas.
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Jesus Christ the King of Kings!

Vintage Changes: Unrestricted Ponder

Straight OG Ballin' shuffle em up tool cause you lookin' like mashed potatoes from my Tatergoyf. Hater whats a smurf? You lucksack? I OG. You make plays? I own deez. You win Tourneys? I buy locks. You double down? I triple up. Trojan Man? Latex. ClubGangster? I own it.Sexy mop? DSi. Shax 4 President?
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #122 on: January 18, 2012, 12:42:29 PM »

Vexing susher gives nice interaction on the stack :p But i'm not sure if CB really wants to compete on the stack, since it cannot have the same amount of counterspells. I see CB as an aggro deck with some static hate (null rod, chalice, thorn, wastelands/moons, now cage) and answers against most dangerous menaces, while providing a decent clock (in order to avoid opponent to recover).

Playing some counters as answers it's nice, but if you want to really interact with the stack competing against Big Blue, play blue.

agreed theres no reason to run mental misstep in this deck even if your adding grafdigger's cage, our opponents mental missteps already wanted to hit our welders, now in order for them to tinker they need to counter both grafdigger's and welder.  vexing shusher can do everything mental misstep can do and more.  I would think you just play a play set of rod, grafdigger's and chalice of the void although i have not had a chance to test them together yet.  the biggest effect this has is that it locks out our worst match up oath.
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credmond
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« Reply #123 on: January 18, 2012, 12:58:09 PM »

With the printing of cage I would think that skull clamp might find its way back into this deck.

Cage overlaps somewhat with null rod in functionality in the sense that one of the functions of null rod is to stop broken lines of play (namely tinker and will). If you include enough artifact removal in the form of 2 for 1 creatures then skull clamp gives the deck a much needed draw engine.

At any rate I think a deck with 4x rod, 4x cage, and 4x chalice probably has too much redundant hate and not enough action.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #124 on: January 18, 2012, 01:11:32 PM »

With the printing of cage I would think that skull clamp might find its way back into this deck.

Cage overlaps somewhat with null rod in functionality in the sense that one of the functions of null rod is to stop broken lines of play (namely tinker and will). If you include enough artifact removal in the form of 2 for 1 creatures then skull clamp gives the deck a much needed draw engine.

At any rate I think a deck with 4x rod, 4x cage, and 4x chalice probably has too much redundant hate and not enough action.

i dont really see these 3 cards overlapping that much in this deck.  Null rods main purpose is shutting off mana from artifact sources and turning off vault/key, and has barely any effect on tinker at all.  Cage's main purpose is shutting off tinker and improving bad match ups like oath and dredge.  Chalice i rarely ever drop on 0, almost always on 1, and occasionally on 2.  These three cards combined with a moon effect essentially limits your opponent to goyf as the only real threat to beating you.
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Shax
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« Reply #125 on: February 04, 2012, 02:28:17 PM »

With the printing of cage I would think that skull clamp might find its way back into this deck.

Cage overlaps somewhat with null rod in functionality in the sense that one of the functions of null rod is to stop broken lines of play (namely tinker and will). If you include enough artifact removal in the form of 2 for 1 creatures then skull clamp gives the deck a much needed draw engine.

At any rate I think a deck with 4x rod, 4x cage, and 4x chalice probably has too much redundant hate and not enough action.

i dont really see these 3 cards overlapping that much in this deck.  Null rods main purpose is shutting off mana from artifact sources and turning off vault/key, and has barely any effect on tinker at all.  Cage's main purpose is shutting off tinker and improving bad match ups like oath and dredge.  Chalice i rarely ever drop on 0, almost always on 1, and occasionally on 2.  These three cards combined with a moon effect essentially limits your opponent to goyf as the only real threat to beating you.

Actually I think Skullclamp could have ALOT of potential in the right Christmas Beatings list. I enjoy looking at old Articles and learning about previous metagames and what lines of play could/did occur.  Christmas Beatings is no exception to this and in older list on the first page a card called ''Kird Ape'' was suggested for faster aggro builds. Christmas Beatings has come a LONG way since the first page. But Kird Ape has too. Kird Ape has Skullclamp going for it in a metagame that can support Wild Nactl as a way to stop.. (Lodestone Golem, Slash Panther,---etc). Skullclamp plus a 2/3 Kird Ape makes it a reversed 3/2 with one of the best 'dies' effects in the game. It can block Lodestone Golem, check. It can do everything Wild Nactl can do except take more than 2 damage. So this makes Kird Ape good. These little critters also dodge Thorn of Amethyst and Thalia, Guardian of the White Weenie. Thalia I think will be huge for white decks so any more creatures we can pack to disrupt, or artifacts that do things for a low cost( skullclamp) makes this strategy excellent.

To be honest for the new Graffdigger's Cage meta, I have even went as far to cut Null Rod from the list.(GASP!) Null Rod has a few benefits, but over time these benefits are starting to become stagnant . Sure it beats MUDw/Metalworker singlehandedly. Anytime I'am on MUD, easily 90%+ of my losses come to Null Rods. Null Rod shuts down your own artifacts and cost 2 mana. In this metagame I would suggest a list like..


4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Pyroblast
4 Nature's Claim
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

The 3 Artifact mana are for the explosive play we need. Obviously that makes a fickel point to those who want to play Null Rods. This deck does not have to play Null Rod to compete. The Wasteland/Strip Mine package usually helps us stop MUD decks on the draw and the maindeck Nature's Claim, Ancient Grudge, and Lightning Bolt means MUD's creatures will not have much room to play. The only answers MUD has to this type of package is usually Wurmcoil Engine(hope this never sees maindeck play) and Crucible of Worlds(MUD- Prison decks usually maindeck this). Only Crucible sees some play right now but is on the low low of MUD % usage. I think using Chalice of the Void over Null Rod right now could be the right call if you want to play out your hands faster also. Chalice can have ALOT of power in this deck if you are on the play and first turn Chalice for 0 after dropping some Moxen. Gorilla Shaman, Ancient Grudge and Nature's Claim handle any stragglers that slip through. The weakness to Chalice is that playing it at 1, 2, or 3 is harder because of the mana cost and it cuts us off cards as well. Playing Chalice at this point should be a win more strategy or used on purpose when your opponent tutors for Ancestral Recall with that Mystical Tutor. It is excellent at helping you win the game when you have a few beaters out early. Really the only innovation here is the Graffdigger's Cage in the sideboard. I'am really loving this card but have had not as many opportunities to test with the card as I would like. The Lightning Bolt helps us take out Creatures and Planeswalkers, and kill the opponent so they are really good right now maindeck. Nature's Claim is the same but is green and stops enchantments or artifacts. Pyroblast is there really so we don't scoop to Tinker game 1 if we did not suceed in stopping there Moxen, or they laid down the smackdown with some Sol Ring/Mana Artifacts like Grim Monolith etc that are out of our Gorilla Shaman/early Chalice range. Pyroblast also pumps Goyf to winning Power/Toughness in most cases. Seal of Primordium is still a great maindeck card since it also pumps Goyf with enchantment sub-type, but Nature's Claim has worked better for me.

The rest of the cards are pretty self explanitory, so the real talk should be. ''Where can I fit Skullclamp in this?'' Skullclamp could work out just fine in this deck as the draw engine if we swapped a few components out. My list are always pretty tight these days so my only comment would be to swap Bolt-Claim-Pyro one of those or a number of those, out for Skullclamp. To get really dirty we could even play the NEW! Undying Wolf from Dark Acension that cost only G for 1/1 body. Of course that would move it into the direction of Kird Ape, Wild Nactl little weenie shits.deck but I think it could be pretty competitive backed by Skullclamp. The main reason to play this over elfs now is because of the red cards. Really. The concept for both the decks are the same but the addition of Red spreads far because of all the hate you can play. I have a token Pithing Needle in my sideboard, but that card could be many things. Shattering Spree, Pulverize(REALLY like). Pulverize I think could be explored as a way for the critter decks to demolish Shop decks harder, but we should already demolish them. Working out the kinks against all the decks BESIDES Shops should be the key. Null Rod beats Shops alone, but I replaced it for all the other hate so it should be about the same game breaking powerlevel wise. This build could work in Skullclamp pretty easily but I don't think playing Skullclamps helps us beat Shops. Does Skullclamp help us beat other decks besides Shops? If Thalia sees alot of play; I don't think it will,(Or could see TONS) but I could be wrong. The biggest threats to this deck historically have had a way to play around our answers. Graffdigger's cage is the most efficient hate tool this deck has seen since Null Rod, so if this card is what it takes to move this archtype forward we should be happy since we are coming out great post Dark Acension.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 03:19:34 PM by Shax » Logged

Jesus Christ the King of Kings!

Vintage Changes: Unrestricted Ponder

Straight OG Ballin' shuffle em up tool cause you lookin' like mashed potatoes from my Tatergoyf. Hater whats a smurf? You lucksack? I OG. You make plays? I own deez. You win Tourneys? I buy locks. You double down? I triple up. Trojan Man? Latex. ClubGangster? I own it.Sexy mop? DSi. Shax 4 President?
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xouman
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« Reply #126 on: February 04, 2012, 06:00:54 PM »

It's weird, but your list does not include skullclamp :p

If you want a 3/X creature with skullclamp, spirits fit perfectly. I think cage could get into the maindeck, as current list does not have any answer to tinker, only chalices to prevent moxes and reb to counter tinker.

And relying in chalice so much, why don't you try vexing susher? that way you can play chalice at 1 or 2 without annoying yourself.
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Shax
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« Reply #127 on: May 08, 2013, 10:00:56 AM »

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gorilla Shaman
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Pyroblast
4 Nature's Claim
3 Null Rod
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
4 Regrowth
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Pyroblast

So the key here is the new addition of 4 Regrowth to Christmas Beatings. I cut a Gorilla Shaman, swapped out 4 Chalice for 3 Null Rod and cut 2 Pyroblast for a full playset of Regrowth maindeck. I added 2 Pyroblast to the Sideboard and cut the Pithing Needle, and cut a Red Elemental Blast.

I cut the Gorilla Shaman and did the Chalice/Rod swap; Pyroblast getting cut was also because of Regrowth. Regrowth allows me to recast the Gorilla Shaman or Null Rod I need to resolve on the table. Because of this I will start using the Shaman/Rod combination at preferred numbers to draw them hopefully once per game.

The Pyroblast getting cut is a steep loss but because of Regrowth I get game in other areas. Now I can consistantly keep a Gush player Striplanded down, and I can trade back and forth with Shops easier. I can also Regrowth back Pyroblast that were countered trying to stop that Jace. Regrowth allows the deck to function at the curve of Christmas Beatings with 5 Stripmine to me. Regrowthing used Fetchlands can be just as important as getting that Black Lotus back if it is lategame and you need some deck thinning to draw into a beater faster.

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Jesus Christ the King of Kings!

Vintage Changes: Unrestricted Ponder

Straight OG Ballin' shuffle em up tool cause you lookin' like mashed potatoes from my Tatergoyf. Hater whats a smurf? You lucksack? I OG. You make plays? I own deez. You win Tourneys? I buy locks. You double down? I triple up. Trojan Man? Latex. ClubGangster? I own it.Sexy mop? DSi. Shax 4 President?
-Hypno
xouman
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« Reply #128 on: May 09, 2013, 05:17:01 AM »

I have always seen regrowth as a mid-game play. After initial hand has been depleted and first resources have been spoiled, regrowth gets that strip, Reb, creature, null rod... but it seems to me that usually it cames late. While I agree that spirits give a quick boost of speed, "wasting" a time recovering something could be a great waste of tempo. On the other hand recovering something from the grave could be the difference between winning and losing if you have enough time.

Now that I think of it, is regrowth strictly superior to life from the loam? if you are recovering wastes and fetches, loam is the CA that this deck. Add barbarian ring and keep some regrowths (to play dredged cards). But it's the same again, very slow against lots of decks, unless you manage to open with quick gorila/null rod.
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John Jones
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« Reply #129 on: May 18, 2013, 07:44:53 PM »

On 5-11-13, I played this at Top Deck Games. Going into the tournament I expected Kohlers Salvagers, 2 butker doomsday decks, Potucheks landstill, Random Shops (Will M being one, landscaping with terranova, random kuldotha), most likely merfolk by Lim et al, And Unfortunately Dredge. I did not expect to see much Oath.

John Jones
Quarterfinalist
“RG Beats”

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Shusher
3 Tin-Street Hooligan
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Stingscourger

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Blood Moon

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby

4 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
2 Mountain
1 Strip Mine

SB:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dismember
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Blood Moon
1 Pulverize


Lost my slip -  No tourney Report

Card Choices
- Wanted to Maximize 4 of's because that is best. Ie, I have slots in my deck, they are dedicated to beating certain match ups. If I am going to bring cards in and out I might as well have the best option that I am already running.
- I like to think that certain numbers just seem right in a deck as such there are 1 of's and 2 of's for reasons. Generally it is that 4 is not enough but 8 is to many.

Magus: Good right now? Seems so.
Metamorph: 4 is to much, should be 3 and +1 dismember. If tinker comes back then maybe stay at 4.
Revoker : Notice the lack of null rods, that is because you have 4 revoker as well as artifact destruction main. This may need to be 3 then +2 null rod and -1 of something else.
SSG/ESG: Obviously. Note: Sometimes the right play is to hold them.
Susher: I liek this as a 4 of. Peoples say drop it to a 3 I say no. It is how you beat chalice on 2. It is also how you beat landstill and bomberman.
Tin Street//Chewer: I like Chewer Main. It is either him or grudge and I think I would rather have a creature late game and a way to kill chalices early game.
Stingscourger: Good in general, bounces random dudes, allows you to swing. Outright kills illusion guy.
Dismember: Should be 3, -1 metamorph. This card is absurd and necessary.
1 of blood moon: I felt as if I wanted 1 more moon effect.

SB
4 Grafdigger's Cage - Brought in against oath and dredge
3 Tormod's Crypt - Brought in against oath and Dredge
2 Dismember - Add 1 to the main, fill in x2
2 Ingot Chewer - Fill in x2
2 Thrun, the Last Troll - Like
1 Blood Moon - Like
1 Pulverize - Don't like//never played
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xouman
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« Reply #130 on: May 19, 2013, 06:23:47 PM »

congratz on your top! When I play spirits, I often find myself out of gas quickly, don't you feel the same lots of times?

Is so good vexing susher? I have planned him lots of times (but up to 3, never 4) and always have fallen to sideboard, or out at all. Besides, I like him playing chalice myself.

Dismember looks great. I usually don't play it because I play ancient tombs and mana crypt and it's too much life loss. Playing tarmos smooths combat phase

Pulverize seems devastating against mud, unless you feel confident with your list. But of course, that list seems VERY good against mud, so i understand that pulverize is not needed.
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John Jones
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« Reply #131 on: May 20, 2013, 08:28:53 AM »

Nah but a lot of it is knowing when to use them. Pretty much only against shops, dredge and oath do  I try and keep hands with land 2x SGS and a magus, then rush out magus. Against landstill, salvagers,  bob control, you want to land vexing susher followed by pretty much anything. Most of the time against blue decks I will save the spirit guides as 2/2s and use them as threats.  From what I found susher is awesome likewise the thruns in the board. Not having things being countered is great. You can also do really tricky plays with spirit guides. Ie, tap out to play goyf leaving no mana for susher. Ohh wait, you got burned sorry, pitch ssg can't be countered? Yes... that does fizzle.

Dismember is unfortunately necessary. You really needed a better way to answer creatures and it nicely kills kuldotha, salvager, and lodestone. It dodges chalice for the most part.

Yeah for me I never even boarded the pulverize in. I played some test games against shops when I got home post board and found that if I had it it was w/e but sac-ing 2 lands does kind of suck.
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