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Author Topic: [Deck Primer]: Christmas Beatings  (Read 35060 times)
Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2010, 05:36:19 AM »

I like Mutation in the SB to come in for things like Seal of Primordium or Hull Breech.  Seal and Breech are really meh vs. Shop decks, but Mutations (if you can cast it) is some nice CA. 
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2011, 12:13:52 PM »

Heya,

Over the Christmas holidays I took a Top 4 with the following Decklist in a 33 man tournament:

4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Nature's Claim
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Snow-covered Mountain
4 Snow-covered Forest
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus

Sideboard:

3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Sylvok Replica
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Hull Breech
2 Ancient Grudge

I wish I had time to post a full play report, but I just don't.  I beat three Gush decks, one Welder Deck, and one Shop deck that day.  I lost to a Gush that transformed into a Fish deck and beat me with Sowers.

The only really innovative thing about this deck is that I chose to include Chalice of the Void over Null Rod.  The only real card I fear is Tinker.  Null Rod does nothing to stop it.  Chalice does.  I can handle pretty much anything that comes at me other than Tinker backed by FoW.  So my deck is built to beat that.  Regarding my SB, there's no Dredge hate.  In my meta, Dredge is totally absent but Oath is over-represented.  My SB reflects that.  In a more balanced meta, the Sylvoks would be out and Relics would be in.  Just remember, that that the 5 Waste effects and 4 Moon Effects in the main are anti-Dredge too.  Not to mention you can Bolt your own guys to remove Bridges. 

If you're looking for the ultimate budget deck, this is it, guys.  You can't get any cheaper or more effective than this list.

Peace,

-Troy
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rappa5050
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« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2011, 11:19:00 PM »

Congrats on your top 4 finish. Choosing Chalice over Null Rod seems really good. Chalice of the Void and Gorilla Shaman (and Pyroblast of course) work really nicely together against Tinker, which I agree is this deck's main concern. Chalice (on zero) also allows same-turn plays that are more costly/impossible with Null Rod. Chalice is better against Storm too. Troy: Were there any circumstances where you Chaliced for 1 or 2? And why play Snow-covered lands?

For anyone interested, here's another possible sideboard (perhaps for a metagame with less Oath and more Dredge):

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Seal of Primordium
3 Red Elemental Blast
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2011, 07:43:41 AM »

Congrats on your top 4 finish. Choosing Chalice over Null Rod seems really good. Chalice of the Void and Gorilla Shaman (and Pyroblast of course) work really nicely together against Tinker, which I agree is this deck's main concern. Chalice (on zero) also allows same-turn plays that are more costly/impossible with Null Rod. Chalice is better against Storm too. Troy: Were there any circumstances where you Chaliced for 1 or 2? And why play Snow-covered lands?

For anyone interested, here's another possible sideboard (perhaps for a metagame with less Oath and more Dredge):

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Seal of Primordium
3 Red Elemental Blast

Yes, there were times I Chaliced for 2 during the tournament.  I know that sounds crazy, but here's the circumstances: Every time I did it, Time Vault was in my opponent's graveyard- either through a Gifts pile or as a result of me destroying it.  Playing Chalice for 2 meant that my opponent couldn't just go find Yawg's Will or Regrowth and win.  Now he had to find an answer for Chalice.  That bought me an extra turn or two and then let me have a fight over a blue spell where my Red Blasts are relevant instead of over Time Vault were only my artifact desctruction is relevant. 

I'll give you an example from the seond round of the tournament.  My opponent had a Trop, USea, Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, and a Sol Ring in play.  I had an Ancient Grudge in the graveyard, a couple basics out with a Goyf and SSG in play, a Wasteland, a Chalice set a zero, and was completely untapped.  My opponent cast Gifts at the end of my turn for Time Vault, Voltaic Key, Yawgmoth's Will, and Regrowth.  I didn't have a redblast at the time.  He resolves Gifts, and I put Key and Vault in the yard.  I then flashback Ancient Grudge on his Mox Jet, then Waste his Usea, then Nature's Claim his Sol Ring.  He couldn't counter anything, so he was left with just a Trop and a Mox Ruby in play.  That meant he couldn't replay his artifacts the next turn.  He drew, passed, then I played Chalice at two the next turn.  He Brainstormed, but didn't find a counter.  So now he was locked out of playing Regrowth and Time Vault.  I went on to win from there.

Even with Chalice shutting off my Goyfs, I can still cast Spriit Guides, Magus of the Moon, and Mox Monkies, so it's not like I turned off my deck's aggro element completely. 

As for the snow-covered lands, this deck's name is Christmas Beatings.  I can't imagine any reason why you wouldn't play snow-covered lands.  It's Christmas time!

Peace,

-Troy
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Ozymandias
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« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2011, 03:51:24 PM »

I think if you're not hellbenting, REB is a bit better than Pyroblast, as it can't be misdirected away from a Jace.

Blood Moon and Tin Street Hooligan seem like viable choices.

What was your sideboarding like?

If you haven't got Null Rod, Jitte seems like a real wrecking ball to help your mostly anemic clocks.
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2011, 05:22:02 PM »

I think if you're not hellbenting, REB is a bit better than Pyroblast, as it can't be misdirected away from a Jace.

Blood Moon and Tin Street Hooligan seem like viable choices.

What was your sideboarding like?

If you haven't got Null Rod, Jitte seems like a real wrecking ball to help your mostly anemic clocks.

REB can be misdirected back to Misdirection, so it's got no advantage there.  Besides, next to no one plays MisD anymore.  Pyroblast is loads better than REB when trying to get hellbent (and I'm not sure why you brought that up, did you think you were in the TMWA thread?). 

I posted my sideboard.  Were there specific questions about the cards you had or were you asking what I brought in against various decks?

Peace,

-Troy
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beder
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« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2011, 03:04:38 AM »

Heya,

Over the Christmas holidays I took a Top 4 with the following Decklist in a 33 man tournament:

4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Nature's Claim
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Snow-covered Mountain
4 Snow-covered Forest
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus

Sideboard:

3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Sylvok Replica
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Hull Breech
2 Ancient Grudge

I wish I had time to post a full play report, but I just don't.  I beat three Gush decks, one Welder Deck, and one Shop deck that day.  I lost to a Gush that transformed into a Fish deck and beat me with Sowers.

The only really innovative thing about this deck is that I chose to include Chalice of the Void over Null Rod.  The only real card I fear is Tinker.  Null Rod does nothing to stop it.  Chalice does.  I can handle pretty much anything that comes at me other than Tinker backed by FoW.  So my deck is built to beat that.  Regarding my SB, there's no Dredge hate.  In my meta, Dredge is totally absent but Oath is over-represented.  My SB reflects that.  In a more balanced meta, the Sylvoks would be out and Relics would be in.  Just remember, that that the 5 Waste effects and 4 Moon Effects in the main are anti-Dredge too.  Not to mention you can Bolt your own guys to remove Bridges. 

If you're looking for the ultimate budget deck, this is it, guys.  You can't get any cheaper or more effective than this list.

Peace,

-Troy

Given that you don't play null rod and with this huge number of artifact destroyers main deck, don't you feel like liquidmetal coating could definitely find a room in this build?
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2011, 07:50:30 AM »

I worked with Liquimetal Coating from the moment it was spoiled.  I probably played sixty games on MWS with it in an R/G build trying to get it right.  I never could.  Far too often I'd have the Coating with no artifact kill, or artifact kill with no Coating.  Whenever I got the combo out, it was indeed devastating.  I never lost.  But without any kind of tutoring, draw engine, or deck manipulation in this deck, getting the combo out was very spotty.  Red-Green aren't very good colors for supporting a combo.  I finally found that just playing a deck where all the cards were good on their own was the best route.  I was utterly disapointed, but that was my conclusion.

Peace,

-Troy
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« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2011, 11:20:35 PM »

I think if you're not hellbenting, REB is a bit better than Pyroblast, as it can't be misdirected away from a Jace.

Blood Moon and Tin Street Hooligan seem like viable choices.

What was your sideboarding like?

If you haven't got Null Rod, Jitte seems like a real wrecking ball to help your mostly anemic clocks.

REB can be misdirected back to Misdirection, so it's got no advantage there.  Besides, next to no one plays MisD anymore.  Pyroblast is loads better than REB when trying to get hellbent (and I'm not sure why you brought that up, did you think you were in the TMWA thread?). 

I posted my sideboard.  Were there specific questions about the cards you had or were you asking what I brought in against various decks?

Peace,

-Troy

Because REB is modal, when targeting a permanent, it can't be misdirected to misdirection. When targeting a spell, there is no difference. Since your deck doesn't care about getting hellbent as far as I can see, I would think that PB is better. Of course, the "growing goyf without a target" corner case might also be relevant, so I guess it's a tossup.

I was asking about outs and ins on the board. I think I am going to run this deck at my next t1 tourney, with maybe a little bit more Dredge hate.
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2011, 10:46:48 AM »

I think if you're not hellbenting, REB is a bit better than Pyroblast, as it can't be misdirected away from a Jace.

Blood Moon and Tin Street Hooligan seem like viable choices.

What was your sideboarding like?

If you haven't got Null Rod, Jitte seems like a real wrecking ball to help your mostly anemic clocks.

REB can be misdirected back to Misdirection, so it's got no advantage there.  Besides, next to no one plays MisD anymore.  Pyroblast is loads better than REB when trying to get hellbent (and I'm not sure why you brought that up, did you think you were in the TMWA thread?).  

I posted my sideboard.  Were there specific questions about the cards you had or were you asking what I brought in against various decks?

Peace,

-Troy

Because REB is modal, when targeting a permanent, it can't be misdirected to misdirection. When targeting a spell, there is no difference. Since your deck doesn't care about getting hellbent as far as I can see, I would think that PB is better. Of course, the "growing goyf without a target" corner case might also be relevant, so I guess it's a tossup.

I was asking about outs and ins on the board. I think I am going to run this deck at my next t1 tourney, with maybe a little bit more Dredge hate.

I would definately pack more Dredge hate.  I knew for a fact that there would be absolutely no Dredge at the tournament I was going to, so I left all my Dredge hate out and replaced it with Oath hate.  I would definately drop the Sylvok Replicas and then one Pyrokinesis and one Ancient Grudge or both Hull Breaches for 4 Relic of Progenitus and 2 Ravenous Trap.  I like Relic even with Goyf in the deck because it can wipe out a Graveyard without targeting.  With all the Leylines of Sanctity around, that's important IMHO.  And remember, the Bolts, Magus of the Moons, and Wasteland/Strip Mine in the maindeck are all anti-Dredge cards too.

Good luck! Smile

Peace,

-Troy
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« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2011, 11:17:03 AM »

I keep thinking more and more about this deck lately.  The last tournament I went to must have been 65% gush and 25% shops.  And this is a hate deck designed to beat both.  I like those odds.

Earlier in the thread there was some slight discussion and dismissal of Root Maze.  I feel like it might deserve another look when the field is so Gush-heavy.  I mean, it's hard to gush into much of anything with a root maze on the board.  Also it's another relevant piece of turn-one disruption, which in limited testing, i found to be really important.  I love the Chalice plan for this reason.

But is root maze terrible against shops?  Or is it too symmetric too often?
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2011, 12:30:08 PM »

I keep thinking more and more about this deck lately.  The last tournament I went to must have been 65% gush and 25% shops.  And this is a hate deck designed to beat both.  I like those odds.

Earlier in the thread there was some slight discussion and dismissal of Root Maze.  I feel like it might deserve another look when the field is so Gush-heavy.  I mean, it's hard to gush into much of anything with a root maze on the board.  Also it's another relevant piece of turn-one disruption, which in limited testing, i found to be really important.  I love the Chalice plan for this reason.

But is root maze terrible against shops?  Or is it too symmetric too often?

When Steve and I were originally working on this deck, we toyed around with the idea of playing 4 Mazes and 4 Pithing Needle main deck.  This way you could play Root Maze turn one then Needle their fetchland the next turn and really hose them out of mana.  The problem with that strategy is two fold.  First, it's a two card combo and those just don't work in this deck.  Second, and more relevant to your question, Root Maze turned out to be too symetrical.  It slows the R/G player too much.  I would much rather screw a Gush player by playing Magus of the Moon than Root Maze or by Red Blasting his Gush than playing with Root Maze. 

Against Shops, Root Maze only helps their strategy of slowing you down.  You need your Wastelands right away to hit their Shops.  You need to be able to cast Ancient Grudge and Magus of the Moon on turns 2 and 3, not 3 or 4.  And since a lot of Shop decks play Chalice, using Root Maze opens you up too much to Chalice @ 1 for my taste.

I wish the card could work.  I like it in theory, but in practice it's just not worth it.  I still think Christmas Beatings is very well positioned in the metagame right now.  If I had to go to a tournament tomorrow, I'd still take the exact list I posted above save adding in some Dredge hate like Relic of Progenitus.

Peace,

-Troy
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« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2011, 11:22:12 AM »

If I had to go to a tournament tomorrow, I'd still take the exact list I posted above save adding in some Dredge hate like Relic of Progenitus.

In that case: What would you take out?

Grtz
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« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2011, 01:03:23 PM »

If I had to go to a tournament tomorrow, I'd still take the exact list I posted above save adding in some Dredge hate like Relic of Progenitus.

In that case: What would you take out?

Grtz

I'd take out the Sylvok Replicas for sure.  Oath is a huge player in my meta, while Dredge is non-existant.  4 Relics + the 5 Strip/Waste, 4 Magus, and 4 Bolt-my-own-creature cards should be enough to give Dredge fits.  I also usually side in the 4 Pyrokinesis.  It's a nice surprise card to kill FKZ if necessary.
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« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2011, 04:51:35 PM »

Sorry for the slight Necro, but I have been testing this deck extensivley against the Vintage Gauntlet and have a  question. Should Scavenging Ooze be somewhere in the Sideboard? It seems like it trys very hard to fufill the role that Relic of Progenitus does in my list.

(The same list as Troy recently posted by -1 Seal Maindeck for another Ancient Grudge to bring it up to x3, and then in the sideboard have x4 Relic, x2 Ravenous Trap, x1 Ancient Grudge, x3 Pyrokinesis, x4 Red Elemental Blast, and x1 Hull Breach. I like the number of graveyard hate cards but would Scavenging Ooze be 'win more'? And would it change up any mana needed for the maindeck since it gobbles all your resources every turn?

Is Tin-Street Hooligan a choice for the Maindeck or Sideboard?

REB, Grudge, Pyrokinesis are amazing. Hull Breach has been not so useful in testing since there are few Oath decks to face but I expect some amount of Oath in a large tourney.
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« Reply #75 on: July 30, 2011, 02:00:23 PM »

Heya Shax,

Sorry for the slight Necro, but I have been testing this deck extensivley against the Vintage Gauntlet and have a  question. Should Scavenging Ooze be somewhere in the Sideboard? It seems like it trys very hard to fufill the role that Relic of Progenitus does in my list.

Scavening Ooze is a really cool card, but I think it's too mana hungry for this deck to use in place of Relic of Progenitus or Ravenous Trap.  Christmas Beatings wants to keep its mana open to do other things each turn.  Pumping a creature slows you down and won't disrupt Dredge all that much anyway.  One thing you might experiment with, if you wanted, was replacing Tarmogoyf with him.  He could be a viable replacement in that he gains you life (i.e. time) and disrupts your opponent as well.  He'd be especially good in a heavy Dredge or Yawgs Will meta.  The problem is, this deck already has a very slow clock.  Taking out Goyf slows it down even more.  It might be worth it, but I think you should test it before trying it in a real tournament.  If you do try him, I'd replace one Mountain (in my above decklist) with a Taiga for a little more access to green.

(The same list as Troy recently posted by -1 Seal Maindeck for another Ancient Grudge to bring it up to x3, and then in the sideboard have x4 Relic, x2 Ravenous Trap, x1 Ancient Grudge, x3 Pyrokinesis, x4 Red Elemental Blast, and x1 Hull Breach.

I think the changes you made and the sideboard you play are just exactly right for a larger tournament.  Nice Smile

Is Tin-Street Hooligan a choice for the Maindeck or Sideboard?

REB, Grudge, Pyrokinesis are amazing. Hull Breach has been not so useful in testing since there are few Oath decks to face but I expect some amount of Oath in a large tourney.

If I were to play Hooligan, he'd be in the sideboard.  But what I'd rather play than Hooligan is Stingscourger.  Back when I posted my last list, everyone was playing Sphinx of the Steel Wind as their Tinker target.  No more.  That vast majority have switched to BSC.  As I've preached over and over, Tinker is enemy #1 for this deck.  Any way to nullify that card should be seriously considered.  Stingscourger is also good against Shops and Dredge.  Against shops, you can bounce their Golem then Wasteland their Shop.  Whith a Sphere of Resistance out, they won't get to play him again for a good while.  Same goes if you bounce their fattie with a Magus of the Moon out.  Their lands produce less mana, so they won't get to play them as soon.  Scourger can also bounce Narcomoebas and Bloodghasts which is horribly annoying and disruptive to Dredge.  Not to mention failing to pay his Echo cost wipes their Bridges. 

I don't know where Stingscourger would fit, though.  Lightning Bolt was good when we were in a Fish meta.  It zaps Jace and Golem too.  Gorilla Shaman is a great anti-Tinker/anti-Shop card, but with 3 Grudges, 1 Seal, and 4 Claims in the main deck, is it necessary to run 4 Mox Monkies?  I don't have the answer to those questions right now.  I haven't been able to play Vintage in a while, so I'm a little out of practice with the current meta.  Christmas Beatings seems well placed to take advantage of the meta, though.  There's lots of blue cards and lots of artifacts- the two things this deck feeds on best.  I encourage you to keep running your guantlet while trying out different combinations to see what works best.

Peace,

-Troy
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2011, 08:04:20 AM »

Heya,

After watching the Vintage top 8 Champs here is what I'd sleave up for a tournament tomorrow if I were expecting a similar metagame:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Stingscourger
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Nature’ Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Pyroblast
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Black Lotus
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
4 Snow-covered Forest
4 Snow-covered Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

--Sideboard—

3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Hull Breech


Peace,

-Troy
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« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2011, 08:44:13 AM »

Heya,

With the changing metagame, I'm going to proffer two cards that I think could improve this deck's matchups against the field.  One of Christmas Beatings' greatest advantge is getting to maindeck Pyroblast against blue decks.  But thanks to these cards:



casting Pyroblast isn't as easy as it used to be.  Blue decks now have their own main-deck answers to the efficiency of our red blasts.  However, there is a trump even to these cards that Blue decks cannot answer:



Regardless of how many Flusterstorms are on the stack, it only takes {R} or {G} to nullify it with Shusher.  It does make our Redblasts cost 2 instead of 1, BUT Shusher blanks so many of Blue's most played spells that I think his time to shine has come.  With decks packing 10+ counterspells, I'll be excited to try him at my next chance.

The other bane of our aggro experience is of course the ever-present robot:



Ol' One-Shot-the-Robot ends games faster than anything we've seen before.  But when it comes to red/green decks, the move to BSC is actually a good thing.  We have tons of answers for this guy, the best (IMHO) being:



Stingscourger goes back to the very first list Stephen and I developed.  This guy dodgest Spell Pierce, Mental Misstep, and Flusterstorm, and anymore, that's important.  You still have to draw him, but that's the risks associated with piloting a budget-oriented deck.  Christmas Beatings has enough blockers to buy a turn vs. BSC, so there is time once one resolves to draw him and play him.  Speaking from my own experience back when DSC was the go-to robot for Tinker, Stingscourger worked very well.  You can always run a couple Dead//Gone in the SB as back-up if you really fear DSC.

I'm working a new write-up for this deck, but I'm not really going to be able to do that until I get some actual play in.  I'll let you know what I find over the coming weeks.  Until then, happy hunting!

Peace,

-Troy
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« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2011, 08:53:51 AM »

I have RG Beats together now. I put four Mental Missteps in it. They're pretty good.
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« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2011, 01:41:46 PM »

Deglamer is also a good solution to BSC and to this deck's other main nemesis, Oath. Looking forward to any new ideas regarding this deck since it is one of my all-time favorites.
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« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2011, 03:35:00 PM »

I have RG Beats together now. I put four Mental Missteps in it. They're pretty good.

Yeah, I've been wondering if fighting fire with fire might work in this deck.  Misstep is silly good right now, especially with all the greedy manabases people are using.  Misstepping thier Ponder or Preordain can mean denying them a land drop.  That's huge for a deck that wants to play Magus of the Moon.

Deglamer is also a good solution to BSC and to this deck's other main nemesis, Oath. Looking forward to any new ideas regarding this deck since it is one of my all-time favorites.

I used Deglamer in Christmas Beatings as soon as it was printed along side Dead//Gone.  The problem with Deglamer now is that it really can't target Emrakul, and against Golden Gun Oath, you really need to be able to do that.  I like Stingscourger for that very reason.  He can targer Emrakul and bounce that nasty beast back to their hand where it's a dead card. 

Peace,

-Troy
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« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2011, 07:41:18 PM »

And another bonus for playing with stingscourger is that it can remove bridge's against dredge (and remove a zomby, or bounce something else) by not paying the echo.

(for those that don't run mogg fanatic anymore)
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« Reply #82 on: November 02, 2011, 07:43:23 PM »

I have RG Beats together now. I put four Mental Missteps in it. They're pretty good.

Yeah, I've been wondering if fighting fire with fire might work in this deck.  Misstep is silly good right now, especially with all the greedy manabases people are using.  Misstepping thier Ponder or Preordain can mean denying them a land drop.  That's huge for a deck that wants to play Magus of the Moon.

I have to agree. Play it early and often. Most people are not expecting it, so it feels like a really good mind game: "What else does he have in that deck?" Mostly the point has just been to tangle them up enough to land something devastating like Maggie Moon or Null Rod or to punch a hole in them with Tarmogoyf.
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« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2011, 03:10:10 AM »

Regardless of how many Flusterstorms are on the stack, it only takes {R} or {G} to nullify it with Shusher.  It does make our Redblasts cost 2 instead of 1, BUT Shusher blanks so many of Blue's most played spells that I think his time to shine has come.  With decks packing 10+ counterspells, I'll be excited to try him at my next chance.

I am a very silent lurker on TMD but your recent inclusion of Vexing Shusher is enough reason to appear for a short moment at least.

I am playing Christmas Beatings since the primer was posted and from the very first moment have included shusher. Apart from his obvious qualities right now he additionally shines in combinaton with chalice. I have locked out many an opponent by playing chalice at 1 or 2 while still being able to cast through it with shusher. Naturally, this buys an extreme amount of time and complements the Magus strategy quite well (at least from my experience). Just wanted to point this (also rather obvious aspect) out.

/Fossy
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xouman
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« Reply #84 on: November 03, 2011, 06:47:53 AM »

Isn't welder better than stingscourger in a deck with 4 gorilla shaman? welder takes out not only bsc but also vault (and with shaman is a real threat to MUD)

And misstep looks very nice in a budget deck that needs some tempo Wink
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2011, 06:54:21 AM »

Regardless of how many Flusterstorms are on the stack, it only takes {R} or {G} to nullify it with Shusher.  It does make our Redblasts cost 2 instead of 1, BUT Shusher blanks so many of Blue's most played spells that I think his time to shine has come.  With decks packing 10+ counterspells, I'll be excited to try him at my next chance.

I am a very silent lurker on TMD but your recent inclusion of Vexing Shusher is enough reason to appear for a short moment at least.

I am playing Christmas Beatings since the primer was posted and from the very first moment have included shusher. Apart from his obvious qualities right now he additionally shines in combinaton with chalice. I have locked out many an opponent by playing chalice at 1 or 2 while still being able to cast through it with shusher. Naturally, this buys an extreme amount of time and complements the Magus strategy quite well (at least from my experience). Just wanted to point this (also rather obvious aspect) out.

/Fossy

That's a great point, and I should have pointed it out.  A second Chalice is not dead if you have a Shusher out.  That can be a big deal.

Isn't welder better than stingscourger in a deck with 4 gorilla shaman? welder takes out not only bsc but also vault (and with shaman is a real threat to MUD)

My experience (which admittedly has been limited for the last four months) has shown me that my opponent's hand is the safest zone (other than exiled, of course) for big robots.  If I welder BSC into the graveyard, he gets shuffled back into my opponent's library.  Then it's just one Regrowth/Noxious Revival/Yawg's Will/Snapcaster away from being Tinkered into play again.  If BSC is in my opponent's hand, there is almost no way he's going to get the twelve mana to put him back into play.  Then I just have to worry about Brainstorm putting him back into their library.  That's much easier, IMHO.
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Fossy
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« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2011, 11:18:56 AM »

That's a great point, and I should have pointed it out.  A second Chalice is not dead if you have a Shusher out.  That can be a big deal.

Hey Troy, I hope you don't mind if I am overly painstaking in this point. A second chalice is not only not dead. My point is that -- in combination with Shusher -- this play even becomes highly asymmetric and can then often be neck-breaking.

However, my small practical experience might screw this assessment.

As an aside, the sweet goblin shaman also helps with opposing chalices which I happen to run into whenever I go to a tourney (there may be a selection bias involved).
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2011, 08:25:13 PM »

Heya,

Christmas Beatings just took down a 34 man tournament!  The decklist is not something I would have expected, but it's pretty cool.  Here's the link to the tournament report: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=43418.0


And here's the decklist:

Quote
In the end of the day , John Jones took down the event with Season’s Beatings!

1st Place John Jones – “RG BEATZ”
1 Berserk
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Stingscourger
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tinstreet Hooligan
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Artifact Mutation
4 Null Rod
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothillls

Sideboard:
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dismember
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Shattering Spree
1 Nature’s Claim
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chalywong
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« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2011, 09:57:19 PM »

I like it a lot.  I have played a lot of these cards in vintage and they can really wreck some decks.  Artifact mutation wins the game on the spot a good percentage of the time, and with decks packing so many counters, all the reb effects are usually live.  Great deck approach and I will probably build something close to it in the future.
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Lochinvar81
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« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2011, 11:43:56 PM »

Two Mox Emeralds AND two Lotuses!? Broken! I wonder if the second Ruby just didn't test as well...

I like the Phyrexian Metamorphs particularly. I wouldn't have thought to use them, but it makes a lot of sense.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 11:47:07 PM by Lochinvar81 » Logged

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