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Author Topic: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources  (Read 48026 times)
Farandar
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« Reply #150 on: February 12, 2009, 09:55:30 AM »

I like what you've done with this stack so far.  It's mostly lower power stuff but it does have some strong effects like Kaerevek the Merciless, Searing Wind, Chord of Calling and Chainer.  I bet Chainer seems really good in here.
Thanks for the good word.
The pack has been worked to allow a lot of choices : you want to mass reanimate : lose life. You want to draw : offer lifepoints to your opponent.
The pack is under big reconstruction since a lot of stupid card have shown up. We are also going to introduce the "alternate cost makes free spell", so a lot of new spells and creatures are going to show up. Sad part of it : the pack is currently exploding (400+ !!!)
Quote
Have you tried Dimir Doppleganger?
Nope, didn't get one. I'm not that enthousiastic about the card.

Quote
Got to ask about a couple of these... Have these cards been good for you? Experiment Kraj
The big ooze has never showned up yet. We keep it in until big (bug ?) day.

Quote
Kismet
I guess that Loxodon Gatekeeper would make more sense, but we had plenty of the enchantment to spare, and the Elephant is nowhere to find around. Maybe we should change the oldy for the fatty (but a 2/3 is some kind of a joke in here...)

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Copy Enchantment
This is only here for the stupid "combo" : followed footsteps + Copy enchantement + opalescence Very Happy
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Yomiji
Might be on the exit road with the reconstruction of the stack.

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Counterspells = 33 is a little over 10%.  That's pretty good.
Wonder if this is ironic since you said earlier that a lower percentage of counterspells was better.

Quote
Hostility seems bad.  You only have like 9 burn spells.  Seems unlikely you'll ever see the effect.
Reconstruction has added 6 or so burn spells... but I don't know if they'll make it all.
Anyway, Hostility is still a recursive 6/6 celerity. A bit under the curve maybe, but purity seems even lower than that, I guess.
I think they will both stay and be outted when proved really under the curve after a few game.

Quote
I dont think Vamp Dragon would be too good in here.
Actually, the only time we played it, the same player played every turn Whispers of the Muse, until he found a symetric damage spell like Hurricane or so... but he had the higher life points total... the whole three get out of the pack...
Quote
Legacy Weapon has also been surprisingly fair for me.
Wonder how it can be. We'll try out again.
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I certainly agree that the other cards you have listed as "banned" would be overly powerful for most Type 4 stacks. 

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Checks and Balances is one I haven't seen, and looks like fun.  What happens when there are only two players left? It's really not clear on the card.  What if it's in play when there's three players, and one player dies... does every card get countered?
I guess there is some kind of SBE that makes the card run a self destruction process when there are only two players left Smile

Quote
There's probably a lot more to comment on here, but this stack does look like a lot of fun.  thanks for sharing.
I'll keep you posted after the new stack has run a bit Smile









[/quote]
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Wagner
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« Reply #151 on: February 12, 2009, 10:24:34 AM »

Quote
I dont think Vamp Dragon would be too good in here.
Actually, the only time we played it, the same player played every turn Whispers of the Muse, until he found a symetric damage spell like Hurricane or so... but he had the higher life points total... the whole three get out of the pack...

What does that have to do with the Dragon? From your example, any creature in the same situation would have been given the boot.
I.e:
He drew a bunch of cards, then played Grizzly Bears, then killed everyone with a burn spell. Grizzly Bear is obviously overpowered.

Vamp Dragon is a good mass removal and rarely gets big enough to really be a nuisance, yet it is a great ability creature with a great board and game effect, I think it should be in pretty much every stack, way before Masticore actually.
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Farandar
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« Reply #152 on: February 12, 2009, 10:28:35 AM »

It had to do since nobody could play any creature without having it killed by the Dragon. So it kept on attacking, and let us die miserabily. Maybe - probably - we overreacted about the whole three cards, but it was one of our first game in T4.

We'll try it again.
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dandan
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« Reply #153 on: March 03, 2009, 05:02:40 AM »

I exclude any infinite damage (paying infinite life is OK if you have that much), firebreathing and anything that can repeatedly wipe the board (killing one creature a turn is fine). Just the one spell per turn so Cycling probably better for us than in most groups.

Is there an easy way to quickly draft? Quite often we just want to get down to business and just shuffle out some piles and everyone grabs one.

It is also a problem if we have a 2 player game (you can deal 4 cards and get first and last pick but even that is a bit slow). Also certain cards (buyback!) are waaaaaaaaaay too strong in a duel, whilst others are rather weak (Storm, although I can live with Storm not being a monster once in a while).

Any advice on quick ways to start a Type 4 game?
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Anusien
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« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2009, 10:28:27 AM »

We've Solomon drafted, and that is quite interesting.  You can get stuck with some big decks full of shitty cards and a few gems that way.

Also it may help if you double the number of packs and cut the size in half.
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« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2009, 11:03:46 AM »

I have an interesting 2-player variant.  It's much much MUCH less hopeless than 1-spell for turn in a 2 player game.  But I wouldn't call it 'fair.'  It definatly can be very onesided, but we've had some good games.

Basically its not really type 4.  In that you don't have infinite mana for spells.  You do have infinite mana for activated abilites, and other non-spell payments (cycling, unmorphing, mirari payments, and whatnot). 

The way you play spells is that you may play any land in your hand upside down as a 'HyperLand.'  Hyperlands count as your land drop for that turn.  They are non-basic lands of the same name, and are targetable, return-to-hand-able, and can be put into the graveyard.  Hyperlands become the normal card when they leave the play zone.  This includes going to hand or graveyard.  Hyperlands Tap for mana equal to the mana cost of card (X=0).  So If I play Nichol Bolas as a Hyperland, its as if I had a land that said:  {T}: Add {2}{U}{U}{B}{B}{R}{R} to your mana pool.  Its type 4 so there is no mana burn.  However, mana does clear each phase, so when I tap my Nichol Bolas Hyperland, I add all that mana to my pool, and can play as many spells as I can with that mana.  So I could play bascially 8 mana worth of U, B, or R spells... so long as I have enough colored (so no Promise of Power). 

Each player will need a bunch of dice.  Place dice on each hyperland because putting them upsidedown (not face down) can get really confusing when you're tapping lands + creatures in play.  Dice not only help you remember which cards in play are Hyperlands, but are useful when tapping big lands for crazy amounts of mana. 

You can play with any typical Type 4 deck, but cards definately change value.  Really really high casting cost cards typcically end up as lands (Because you won't have enough small cards to muster the payment, and they alow you to do more each turn).  Artifacts or low CC cards with good activated abilites are primo because you will basically always be able to play them, and abuse them.

All and all its alot more fun than losing to 1 monster protected by 2 counterspells in a "one spell for turn" duel.
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« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2009, 03:28:48 PM »

Quote
Any advice on quick ways to start a Type 4 game?

Deal an even number of cards to each player.  Shuffle without looking and just play.  We've played this way a lot of times, and I think it's the eay to go if you dont want to draft.  I think that the draft is one of the more interesting/fun parts of the game, but I cant think of any good ways to run a satisfying draft that are not time consuming. 

If you want to get started quickly, random stacks of cards are best.  If you make packs and run it like a cube draft, this would be the second fastest way.

My old friend Dave and I used to play two player games by just dividing the stack into two piles and then we'd play a game then swap decks.  These games can be stupid broken sometimes, but they're at least over quickly.


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« Reply #157 on: April 09, 2009, 05:20:06 AM »

Paul-

What are your standards on including a counterspell in the stack?  Will you include any old counter as long as it says "counter target spell" or does it have to be strictly superior?  I'm torn because I need to choose to include more counters, or only the good ones.  Also what are your rules on alternate casting costs?

Mine are that any of the following are free:
Pitching cards (misdirection, commandeer etc)
Morphs
Bringers
Suspend
Pacts
Evoke

It rewards people that pick the subpar cards by allowing them two cards per turn.  Ideas on anything else to include in that rule?
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Farandar
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« Reply #158 on: April 09, 2009, 05:28:38 AM »

Madness
Flashback
anything that allows you to play a spell without paying its mana cost (from Isochron scepter to Brilliant Ultimatum)
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« Reply #159 on: April 09, 2009, 06:18:26 AM »

Forgot about that obviously.  Madness I don't think I play anything aside blast from the past, and I ruled madness counts as spell per turn.  Infinite cycling with kicker and buyback is pretty good...
Basically as long as your not paying the top right hand corner of the card's mana cost I would see it as a free for the most part.  If you modify the cost (IE: avatar of woe with 10 creatures in yard) I would still think it counts as your spell per turn?
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« Reply #160 on: April 28, 2009, 06:35:44 PM »

Hi all,

I've been reading this forum for a few months, and have recently begun playing Type 4 in our playgroup.  I built this stack from cards that I've had lying around forever, with probably about 50$ spent on acquiring various commons and uncommons I happened not to have that seemed to feature prominently in others' lists.

Now that we've played about 6 or 7 times (with 2-4 'games' per draft), I figure it's time to start seeking out ways to improve the stack.

Usually 4-6 of us wheel draft the entire list, and play with the entire deck.  We're still playing around with this idea, but the large deck sizes make the card advantage engines incredible (and death through milling does still happen).

Our motto so far is that anything is fair game as long as it doesn't kill everyone else the moment it hits play.  That said, we're still unsure about Walking Archive.  So far it's been amazing, but not game ending (enough countermagic and instant removal seems to exist that it isn't completely bonkers)

We play with the house rules that an ability can only target a permanent once while that ability is on the stack (ie: Mistmeadow Witch can target herself, but if someone responds to that, she can't target herself again until the first instance has resolved, though she could target other things).

We also play with the rule that whenever you don't have to pay mana, it doesn't count as your spell per turn.  Also evoke doesn't count either, as we felt this added an interesting mix of bonus cards to the stack.

I know I should probably put one of my FoW, and one of my Misdirection in here, but other than that I'm looking for feedback on great cards I happen to have missed.  Any other general comments are great too.  Thanks!

Countermagic (40)
Absorb
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Cancel
Counterspell
Countersquall
Decree of Silence
Discombobulate
Dismiss
Disrupting Shoal Dissipate
Double Negative
Draining Whelk
Dream Fracture
Ertai’s Meddling
Exclude
Fervent Denial
Foil
Forbid
Induce Paranoia
Hinder
Hindering Light
Lapse of Certainty
Memory Lapse
Muddle the Mixture
Mystic Snake
Punish Ignorance
Rewind
Remove Soul
Soul Manipulation
Spell Blast
Spell Burst
Spelljack
Spite // Malice
Suffocating Blast
Time Stop
Traumatic Visions
Undermine
Vex
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Prodigy

Misdirection Effects (7)
Deflection
Quicksilver Dragon
Reiterate
Shunt
Swerve
Wild Ricochet
Willbender

Removal (40)
Agonizing Demise
Annihilate
Blood Frenzy
Brainspoil
Chastise
Crooked Scales
Cruel Revival
Desert Twister
Diabolic Edict
Disembowel
Duplicant
Executioner’s Capsule
Expunge
Faith’s Fetters
Fissure
Oblivion Ring
Order // Chaos
Path to Exile
Phithisis
Predator, Flagship
Rend Flesh
Radiant’s Judgment
Resounding Silence
Retribution of the Meek
Second Thoughts
Sever Soul
Shriekmaw
Skinthinner
Slaughter
Sudden Death
Sword to Plowshares
Terminate
Terror
Tornado
Unmake
Violent Ultimatum
Violet Pall
Wing Shards
Wreak Havoc
Wrecking Ball

Burn (10)
Breath of Malfegor
Cerebral Vortex
Heat Ray
Resounding Thunder
Riddle of Lightning
Searing Wind
Soul’s Fire
Sudden Shock
Torrent of Fire
Urza’s Rage

Steal Stuff (18)
Binding Grasp
Blatant Thievery
Chromeshell Crab
Confiscate
Control Magic
Desertion
Dominate
Evangelize
Gather Specimens
Grab the Reins
Insurrection
Planeswalker’s Mischief
Ray of Command
Slave of Bolas
Spinal Embrace
Thieves’ Auction
Yavimaya’s Embrace
Word of Seizing

Wrath Effects (27)
Balance
Balancing act
Bane of the Living
Barter in Blood
Decree of Annihilation
Desolation Giant
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
False Prophet
Forced March
Flowstone Slide
Inferno
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Jokulhaups
Kirtar’s Wrath
March of Souls
Mass Calcify
Obliterate
Pernicious Deed
Plaguewind
Reiver Demon
Rout
Scourglass
Slice and Dice
Soulscour
Tsabo’s Decree
Wrath of God


Anti-Artifact/Enchantment (15)
Altar’s Light
Allay
Dismantling Blow
Hull Breach
Ingot Chewer
Krosan Grip
Molder
Mystic Melting
Naturalize
Orim’s Thunder
Ray of Revelation
Shattering Pulse
Shattering Spree
Smash
Wispmare

Card Advantage (22)
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Aerial Caravan
Aven Fateshaper
Compulsion
Courier’s Capsule
Future Sight
Gifts Ungiven
Heed the Mists
Jushi Apprentice
Moonlight Bargain
Opportunity
Persuasion
Promise of Power
Pulse of the Grid
Read the Runes
Rush of Knowledge
Thought Reflection
Treasure Trove
Tower of Fortunes
Twisted Justice
Vanish into Memory
Whispers of the Muse

Reanimation (15)
Betrayal of Flesh
Cauldron Dance
Chainer, Dementia Master
Dance of the Dead
Dawn of the Dead
Miraculous Recovery
Oversold Cemetery
Puppeteer  Clique
Reaping the Graves
Reborn Hope
Reviving Vapors
Sedraxis, the Traitor King
Twilight’s Call
Vengeful Rebirth
Yawgmoth’s Agenda

Board Control (10)
Fleshformer
Flood
Flowstone Overseer
Legacy Weapon
Masticore
Mistmeadow Witch
Plaguebearer
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Smokespew Invoker
Task Mage Assembly

Defensive (9)
Combat Medic
Ivory Mask
Mourner’s Shield
Panacea
Pariah’s Shield
Pentagram of Ages
Protective Sphere
Shield of the Ages
Sword Dancer

Lifegain (5)
Chant of Vhitu-Ghazi
Invincible Hymn
Mirror Strike
Reverse Damage
Tower of Eons

Fatties (54)
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Arcades Sabboth
Angel of Despair
Autochthon Wurm
Avatar of Woe
Bloodfire Colossus
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Green Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Broodmate Dragon
Carrion Thrash
Cognivore
Colossus of Sardia
Crush of Wurms
Dragon Broodmother
Empyrial Archangel
Firemane Angel
Fungal Shambler
Gigapede
Godsire
Grozoth
Hostility
Hunting Pack
Hypnox
Imperial Hellkite
Intet, the Dreamer
Iridescent Angel
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Kaerek the Merciless
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Colossus
Lord of Extinction
Maelstrom Archangel
Magister Sphinx
Mortivore
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Nicol Bolas
Phage the Untouchable
Plated Slagwurm
Prince of Thralls
Rockshard Elemental
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Sisters of the Stone Death
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Spellbreaker Behemoth
Spirit Monger
Symbiotic Wurm
Vein Drinker
Vigor
Xanthic Statue

Utility Creatures (19)
Armoured Guardian
Cabal Interrogator
Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
Crowd Favourites
Dauntless Escort
Ethersworn Adjudicator
Genesis
Glarecaster
Glory
Grixis Sojourners
Magus of the Abyss
Mayael the Anima
Rakka Mar
Root Elemental
Scrivener
Sen Triplets
Sunscape Battlemage
Thicket Elemental
Withered Wretch

Utility Artifacts (14)
Aladdin’s Ring
Door to Nothingness
Grinning Totem
Icy Manipulator
Lich’s Mirror
Mirari
Null Brooch
Quicksilver Amulet
Reito Lantern
Relic of Progenitus
Ring of Gix
Rings of Brighthearth
Vedalken Orrey
Walking Archive

Utility Enchantments (8)
Gratuitous Violence
Holistic Wisdom
Knollspine Invocation
Maelstrom Nexus
Necrogenesis
Night Soil
Wild Research
Wound Reflection

Utility Spells (19)
Backlash
Bant Charm
Captain’s Maneuver
Crosis’s Charm
Cruel Ultimatum
Darigaaz’s Charm
Decree of Savagery
Dromar’s Charm
Esper Charm
Grixis Charm
Jund Charm
Knowledge Exploitation
Mirrorweave
Naya charm
Reflect Damage
Resounding Roar
Resounding Scream
Soulblast
Time Stretch

Tutors (13)
Aladdin’s Lamp
Citanul Flute
Descendant of Soramaro
Diabolic Tutor
Eladamri’s Call
Flash of Insight
Mystical Tutor
Mystical Teachings
Planar Portal
Riptide Shapeshifter
Soothsaying
Wargate

Bounce (8)
Aethersnipe
Capsize
Evacuation
Kederekt Leviathan
Resounding Wave
Temporal Adept
Upheaval
Wipe Away

Lands  (6)
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Kor Haven
Urza’s Factory
Wasteland
Winding Canyons
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Beralt
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« Reply #161 on: May 11, 2009, 03:52:31 PM »

Rathzil,

Nice list few comments and then some cards you might add - but generally your stack seems overly large - so many wrath and removal effects along with quite a few card drawers.  I might cut some wrath, a bit of removal and some of the card draw.

All these are just suggestions - you might add a few and take out a few.

Countermagic to add - Cryptic command, Last Word, Voidslime, Ertai, Wizard Adept, Venser, Remand, Perplex, Delay, Voidmage Husher.

Not a huge fan of Hindering Light, Traumatic Visions seems redundant (although it does the same thing as Cancel and Counterspell), Spellburst has proved troublesome in the past for our group, with it's buyback.

Misdirection - I might drop swerve - dead card sometimes.

Removal - Chainer's Edict Flashback is nice. Oblation removes anything and plays nice in multiplayer - can use it on your own critters too.

Burn - Beacon of Destruction stops your decking problems.

Steal Stuff - Take Possesion with split second is goood, Treachery helps with untapping lands if you have any useful ones.

Wrath Effects - Hallowed Burial takes care of indestructibles, Dregs of Sorrow can draw you cards, Savage Twister is a low budget alternative, Akroma's Vengeance cycles and can take care of just about any problem, Nevinyrral's disk is old skool, Austere Command gives you choices , Starstorm is an instant that can cycle.

Anti-Artifact - Break Asunder cycles if no targets available, Artifact Mutation gives you tokens.  Naturalize and Hull Breach seem outclassed.

Card Advantage - Fact or Fiction and Thran Tome - both allow other player interaction.

Reanimation - Living Death - both a sweeper and a reanimator, Necromancy can be used as an instant, Debtor's Knell extremely powerful if remains in play, Corpse Dance - buyback here isn't too bad since it removes it's targets over time. Reya Dawnbringer is another nice reanimation tool that's not too broken.  Twilight Shepard has potential here too.

Board Control - Vampiric Dragon is much better then Smokespew Invoker - Flood seems like it would just stalemate games.

Defensive & Lifegain - Not a huge fan of either but I do like Flash creatures and Morph - Exalted Angel for the Morph and Lifelink along with Angel of Salvation for Flash and Damage Prevention.  Soulspike is a pitch spell that can gain you life - Phantom Nishoba is a hard to kill lifegainer.

Fatties - you missed the Big Kahuna - Darksteel Collussus, Inkwell Leviathan - Shroud is good, Myojin of Life's Web 8/8 Indestructible that can vomit your hand of critters into play!, Kokusho - one of the best multiplayer cards ever, Thornling full of abilities, Crosis for some discard, Vesuvan Doppler for copying whichever critter is the fattest, Spirit of the Night - Hasted, Flying, First Striking wannabe Akroma, Verdant Force - making sure you have some tokens, Oversoul of Dusk just about immune to everything, Dread stopping creatures and decking immunity, Bogardan Hellkite Flash and damage dealing!, Blazing Archon to stop those pesky attackers.  Crovax, Ascendant is hard to kill and finally Storm Herd - nothing like 20 tokens on turn 1.

Utility creatures - Vexing Shusher, Anger (needs to be in there), Teferi - near broken and Mindwrack Liege to put red/blue critters into play instantly

Utility artifacts - Gleemax!, Mindslaver, Obelisk of Alara

Utility Enchantments - Sneak Attack

Utility Spells - Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Headstone - it cycles

Bounce - Tidespout Tyrant - reusuable bounce, Repeal - Bounce and cantripping

Land - Maze of Ith, Sunhome, Karakas (incredible in this environment).

Whew - sorry the commentary wound down to mostly just suggestions to add - good luck.
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« Reply #162 on: May 11, 2009, 06:50:17 PM »

When Finals are over, I'll post my outdated version of the stack.  Lotta poor choices. 
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rathzil
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« Reply #163 on: May 11, 2009, 11:11:01 PM »

Thanks Beralt,

Definitely a few ideas in there that I hadn't thought of.  I plan on whittling the stack down a bit, and a lot of the cards you listed are things I'm currently working towards getting my hands on.  As the T4 stack made up of far less expensive cards than my cube, I'm trying to stick exclusively to actual cards for the t4 stack.  Slowly acquiring them though, now that we've made sure it's something our group will want to regularly engage in.

We definitely enjoy spellburst though, as it doesn't get truly crazy until you're down to 2 players, and other players are usually quick to counter it or just kill the guy who has it.
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Farandar
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« Reply #164 on: May 12, 2009, 04:40:01 AM »

We definitely enjoy spellburst though, as it doesn't get truly crazy until you're down to 2 players, and other players are usually quick to counter it or just kill the guy who has it.
So what's the point having a card which is dead until face to face, since you won't use it before unless you want to be identified as the "shoot me" player ?

Here are the cards that Beralt pointed out that interested me for not having them in my stack :
Oblation : seems nice indeed.
Void mage husher : recursive but not broken, counters only targeted abilities which might be narrow...
Hallowed burial : Final Judgment does the same, only better.
Akro's vengeance : Nice since it destroys also artifacts and creature
Break asunder seems very weak when you have orim's thunder...
Angel of salvation : nice indeed, the damage prevention seems week, but the flash thing is good indeed.
Exalted angel : I hav one of these, but it seems too weak to me. The morph powers it up, but is that enough ?
Bogardan Hellkite : damn, I missed this one, when I have so many dragons !!!
Oversoul fo dusk : protected from direct agression, on a 5/5 body. Nice, but I think I have bigger fattiess...
Chainer's edict : It's a ritual Sad
Dread : Doesn't prevent from being hit. Guile is better since it's aggressive, not defensive. Might be replaced by the oversoul.
Neviniral's disk : I replaced it by Plague boiler, just faster and with a wider span.
Twilight sheperd : brings back creatures dead this turn... Nice to "counter" a wrath effect, but seems too narrow
Spirit of the night : overpowered by SOOOOO many creatures since
Tidespout tyran : nice but slow
Headstone : wtf ? There are a lot of cards way better than this (cremate for a start, coffin purge...)
karakas : why not ?

I will have to repost my updated stack with ARB...

Anyone have ideas about what to prefer between Mortivore and Lord of Extinction ? Second is fatter, first has a built-in protection... seems better to me...
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« Reply #165 on: July 22, 2009, 02:23:51 PM »

Tonight I will be posting my most updated version of the stack!  Be ready! (I counted 50+ counterspells!)
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?

"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
Shalafi
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« Reply #166 on: November 03, 2009, 10:04:31 PM »

I am so glad I found this post!  I will add my two cents from what I have seen...  (We T4 in between rounds of drafting at FNM and its a blast.)

Any library searching I have tossed as it just takes too long. (Academy Rector/Black Bringer etc.)

We also play 'one creature and one non-creature' spell per turn.  Try it!  We find it is much faster and more interesting not only in two player but also multiplayer!  (It also makes creatures with flash like B. Hellkite even more amazing as you can also play an instant on opponents turn)

Thanks for your lists!  I will add mine when I get some time, but its over 500 cards and many have already been listed.  The new 'sac a creature, draw' artifact from Zendikar is really good (I know its a reprint with a different name).  Its great with things like Storm Herd obv. and against wraths.

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spcleddy
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« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2010, 10:42:35 PM »

Try a "ten second rule" for library searching. Everybody in our group counts down. Puts the guy under pressure to find something quick.

Favorite Zendikar addition: Rites of Replication. Last week I got fifteen spells off the top for free by copying Djinn of Wishes. It's also really unfair with Kokusho.
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scud8000
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« Reply #168 on: February 12, 2010, 04:49:10 PM »

i'm putting together a type 4 stack for the first time, and have a few questions for those more experienced since i haven't seen it in action all that much.  the main things i'm debating about including are instants with buyback (allay, blast from the past, forbid, etc) and things with non-tapping activated abilities (like mistmeadow witch, azorius guildmage, masticores, etc).  is there any consensus on whether or not to include these, or whether or not to errata the abilities to limit their scope in a given turn?  i could just run them and find out, but that will take a while so i figured i'd ask first.
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Farandar
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« Reply #169 on: February 13, 2010, 04:38:56 AM »

The thing is, Buyback allows only to get the card back, not to replay it on the same turn.

Blast of the past is alone in its genre : you cycle it, play it for free with the acc rules and madness, plus buyback (with kick)... and do it again : one of the biggest spoiler. Some ban it.

whispers of the muse is fair. Powerful but fair.

Spell burst is not.

Slaughter is fair.

Allay is not that useful.

For the activated abilities without tap, the most unfair are those from Illuminatus Djinn, Walking archive, the new dragon from Zendikar (built-in aggravated assault on a 5/5 flyer haste body), Mischevious qanar, Consumptive goo. Others are pretty safe. Powerful - but, hell why would you play T4 BUT to play fatties ? - but safe.
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spcleddy
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« Reply #170 on: March 28, 2010, 06:35:58 PM »

@Farandar: Blast is a blast to play, as long as everyone understands that it counts as your spell for the turn. No ACC balogna. Make Djinn Illuminatus once per spell (just like Quanar) and it works. I have the Goo in my stack, and I don't know if I've actually seen it kill somebody. It also makes a nice target for Spinal Embrace (although THAT person then becomes a target for everyone else to kill!) There are ways to deal with badass cards.
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spcleddy
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« Reply #171 on: March 29, 2010, 07:48:29 PM »

Here is my current stack list. Recently took out some wrath effects and added more creatures. Hoping to get more sleeves and grow the stack to 300-400 cards. Any comments or suggestions?

Acquire (ten second rule for any searching cards)
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Akroma's Vengeance (usually gets cycled)
Aladdin's Lamp
All Suns' Dawn
Altar's Light
Angel of Salvation
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Assert Authority
Autochthon Wurm
Balance
Balancing Act
Bane of the Living (everyone knows what it is face-down b/c he is one of my few morphs)
Bant Charm
Barter in Blood
Battlegrace Angel
Beacon of Destruction
Beacon of Immortality
Beacon of Unrest
Betrayal of Flesh (can't really entwine right now, I want to add more lands)
Biorhythm
Blast from the Past (2 damage, 1/1 goblin, and a card every turn!)
Blitz Hellion
Blood Tyrant
Bloodfire Colossus
Bogardan Hellkite
Borborygmos
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Bosh, Iron Golem
Brilliant Ultimatum
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Green Dawn (probably the worst next to Red Dawn, but why not include the cycle? also, more targets for Grozoth's ability!)
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Bringer of the White Dawn
Broodmate Dragon
Capsize
Cerebral Vortex
Chainer, Dementia Master
Charnelhoard Wurm
Chord of Calling
Cognivore
Combat Medic
Commandeer
Conflux
Consumptive Goo
Controvert
Counterbore
Counterspell
Countersquall
Covenant of Minds
Cruel Ultimatum
Cryptic Command
Dance of the Dead
Daring Apprentice
Dark Depths
Darksteel Colossus
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Silence
Delaying Shield
Discombobulate
Dismal Failure
Dismantling Blow
Disrupting Shoal
Djinn Illuminatus (once a turn)
Djinn of Wishes (Rite of Rep's BFF)
Dominate
Door to Nothingness
Double Negative
Draco
Draining Whelk
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Elemental Appeal
Esper Charm
Faerie Trickery
Feral Hydra
Fervent Denial
Final Judgment
Firemane Angel (she gets around with a common graveyard)
Flash of Insight
Flowstone Overseer
Flowstone Slide
Foil
Force of Will (one of the few ACCs)
Gifts Ungiven
Gleemax (too powerful, but love the ridiculous flavor too much to cut it)
Godsire
Goliath Sphinx
Grab the Reins
Greater Morphling (no haste anymore)
Grozoth
Hellkite Charger
Hinder
Hive Mind (I used to run Eye of the Storm, which became a headache. This can be fun, but maybe not worth a slot)
Hour of Reckoning
Hoverguard Sweepers
Hunting Pack
Hymn of Rebirth
Induce Paranoia
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil (need to get my hands on the original)
Inferno
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni (don't forget the regen)
Inkwell Leviathan
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Johnny, Combo Player (once/turn)
Kalonian Behemoth
Keiga, the Tide Star
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Knollspine Invocation (Pyromancy's big brother)
Kodama of the North Tree
Kokusho, the Evening Star (another Rite of Rep's buddy)
Kuro, Pitlord
Last Word
Lorthos, the Tidemaker
Marshal's Anthem
Martial Coup
Masticore
Maze of Ith
Memnarch (kleptomania!)
Minamo's Meddling
Mind Control
Mindbreak Trap
Mindleech Mass
Mind's Eye
Mindslaver
Mischievious Quanar (once/turn)
Mossbridge Troll (go go regen)
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Life's Web
Myojin of Night's Reach
Mystic Melting
Mystic Restraints (surprisingly useful)
Mystic Snake
Necrogenesis
Negate
Nevinyrral's Disk
Nezumi Graverobber
Nivix, Aerie of the Firemind (new addition, not sure how good it is yet)
Obelisk of Alara
Obliterate
Oblivion Stone
Overwhelming Intellect (Plagiarize loves this)
Pact of Negation
Panglacial Wurm
Parallectric Feedback
Path to Exile
Perplex
Plagiarize
Plague Boiler
Plague Wind
Planar Cleansing
Planar Portal
Plated Slagwurm
Predator, Flagship
Progenitus
Promise of Power
Punish Ignorance
Put Away
Putrefy
Quicksilver Amulet
Ray of Distortion
Razia, Boros Archangel
Reiterate
Relic Crush
Remand
Remove Soul
Resounding Scream
Resounding Thunder
Resounding Wave
Retribution of the Meek
Rewind
Reya Dawnbringer
Riddle of Lightning
Rite of Replication
Root Elemental
Safe Haven
Scourge of Kher Ridges
Screams of the Damned
Searing Wind
Second Thoughts
Sedris, the Traitor King
Seed Spark
Sharuum the Hegemon
Shield of the Ages
Sickening Shoal
Simic Sky Swallower
Sisters of Stone Death
Slave of Bolas
Smokespew Invoker
Solar Tide
Soul Manipulation
Soulscour
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Spell Blast
Spellbreaker Behemoth
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Sphinx of Lost Truths
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Sphinx Sovereign
Spinal Embrace
Stone Idol Trap
Storm Herd
Stronghold Biologist (new addition, looked like a good idea)
Suffocating Blast
Summoner's Bane
Summoning Trap
Sunscour
Swift Silence
Swords to Plowshares
Tainted Pact (too much text, must counter!)
Take Possession
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (I would consider this to be the most unfair card, especially unanswered at end of turn one)
Terastodon
Terminate
Terra Stomper
Thought Dissector
Thwart
Time Stop
Time Stretch
Timmy, Power Gamer
Tooth and Nail
Tower of Eons
Tower of Fortunes
Twisted Justice
Vedalken Orrery
Venser, Shaper Savant
Vex
Vigor Mortis
Wicked Akuba (teehee)
Witherscale Wurm (another newbie. had it in your stack? did you like it?)
World-Bottling Kit
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
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Rubik_3x3x3
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« Reply #172 on: June 30, 2010, 12:42:01 AM »

@ spcleddy

Add more morphs to protect that Bane, as well as other morphs. There's tons of good ones like Skinthinner and Quicksilver Dragon as well as the very beefy Krosan Cloudscraper. All it takes is 5 or 6 morphs to make it at least a bit scary that you have Cloudscraper attacking you facedown.

Doesn't Tainted Pact take forever to get used?

I wouldn't use Witherscale Wurm, Autochthon is notably better, and that guy doesn't really do much.

Nivix should be OK, but I don't expect it to be overwhelming by any means. If you want to add more lands, which I think is a great idea for any stack, I might suggest:
Academy Ruins
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Eye of Ugin
Karakas
Kor Haven
Maze of Ith
Prahv, Spires of Order
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Volrath's Stronghold

Not to count out Nivix, just giving you some ideas. Admittedly, I didn't check for all these in your list, you may already have some or most of those. I usually just consider if I would play an artifact with the ability, and if so, it's gonna be good as a land.

I didn't look the whole thing over, but I hope the bit of input I gave helped. Otherwise, just look at the set reviews that are in the Type 4 section of the site and you can usually find a few things to add within those.

EDIT: Thank you, Farandar, for doing the morph search I wasn't willing to in the next post down.
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Farandar
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« Reply #173 on: July 01, 2010, 07:23:50 AM »

Good morphs worth playing 'em
Willbender
Voidmage apprentice (for these, remember that morphing a creature DO NOT go through the stack and so can counter/divert a Split second spell)
Skinthinner
Chromeshell crab
Brine elemental + Vesuvan shapeshifter (but both can work alone Very Happy )
Imperial Hellkite (uncounterable self replacing dragon)
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thorme
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« Reply #174 on: September 10, 2011, 08:47:29 AM »

Finally getting around to posting mine.  It's not one of the high-powered ones...most cards around the Nezumi Graverobber and up power-level are absent.  I have a couple principles for my stack:

- No errata (I want it to be easy to sit down with anyone and play wiithout heavy house rules for specific cards...so no Quanar, Anger, etc. in my stack - no foreign cards either)
- No tutors (Most often play multiplayer and tutors make the games take much, much longer with folks having to sit around quite a bit)
- As far as how my stack plays...I don't use the alternate casting cost rule or anything clunky.  The rule is simple:  you play with all the normal rules of magic except that you get infinite colored Type 4 mana in your mana pool at all times and once per turn you can use that mana to cast a spell.  Implications:  If I tap my Karakas to Path to Exile a guy, that doesn't count towards my "1 spell per turn" because I didn't use my Type 4 mana for it...ditto for Pacts, etc.  Another implication:  I can activate abilities with my Type 4 mana and if those abilities in turn generate mana, that mana can be used to cast a spell and also doesn't count towards my "1 spell per turn" so that's why you'll see a card like Skyshroud Elf in the stack.

That said, here's the 280-card list:

Instants
=====
Absorb
Agonizing Demise
Annihilate
Bant Charm
Beast Attack
Captain's Maneuver
Cauldron Dance
Commandeer
Controvert
Cremate
Cryptic Command
Decree of Silence
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dismal Failure
Dismantling Blow
Dismiss
Dominate
Dromar's Charm
Ember Shot
Esper Charm
Exile
Fact or Fiction
Fervent Denial
Festival of the Guildpact
Force of Will
Gather Specimens
Grab the Reins
Grim Harvest
Hindering Light
Into the Roil
Jace's Ingenuity
Krosan Grip
Memory Plunder
Mindbreak Trap
Molder
Momentous Fall
Mystic Melting
Mystic Snake
Nemesis Trap
Opportunity
Overwhelming Intellect
Pact of Negation
Path to Exile
Prophetic Bolt
Pulse of the Fields
Pulse of the Grid
Punish Ignorance
Ray of Distortion
Reflect Damage
Relic Crush
Repeal
Resounding Roar
Resounding Silence
Resounding Thunder
Resounding Wave
Reverse Damage
Reviving Vapors
Riddle of Lightning
Searing Wind
Second Thoughts
Seed Spark
Shattering Pulse
Shining Shoal
Slaughter Pact
Soul Manipulation
Spelljack
Spinal Embrace
Spite/Malice
Slice in Twain
Starstorm
Sudden Death
Swift Silence
Tainted Pact
Thirst for Knowledge
Time Stop
Undermine
Unmake
Urza's Rage
Whispers of the Muse
Wild Ricochet
Word of Seizing

Creatures
======
Aeon Chronicler
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Ana Battlemage
Angel of Despair
Angel of Salvation
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Arcanis
Archon of Justice
Artizan of Kozilek
Azorius Guildmage
Bane of the Living
Benalish Commander
Blood Celebrant
Body Double
Bogarden Hellkite
Bosh, Iron Golem
Butcher of Malakir
Chancellor of the Spires
Consecrated Sphinx
Creakwood Ghoul
Crowd Favorite
Darksteel Colossus
Deathless Angel
Deepfire Elemental
Desolation Giant
Dimir Doppleganger
Djinn of Wishes
Dragon Broodmother
Dragon Whelp
Draining Whelk
Dread Cacodemon
Duplicant
Eight and a Half Tails
Enigma Sphinx
Etched Monstrosity
Etched Oracle
Firemane Angel
Fleshformer
Flowstone Overseer
Furnace Dragon
Gaea's Revenge
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Genesis
Glory
Grixis Sojourners
Grave Titan
Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Havoc Demon
Hypnox
Ink Eyes, Servant of Oni
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Kaervek the Merciless
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Karn, Silver Golem
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kederekt Leviathan
Keiga, the Tide Star
Kokoshu, the Evening Star
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Lighthouse Chronologist
Magister Sphinx
Mist Dragon
Mistmeadow Witch
Morphling
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Infinite Rage
Myojin of Life's Web
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Nantuko Vigilante
Nicol Bolas
Niv-Mizzet the Firemind
Pelakka Wurm
Pentavus
Penumbra Wurm
Phyrexian Gargantua
Phyrexian Ingestor
Pride of the Clouds
Progenitus
Pupeteer Clique
Platinum Emperion
Quicksilver Dragon
Rainbow Efreet
Razia, Boros Archangel
Reiver Demon
Reya Dawnbringer
Root Elemental
Scavenging Ooze
Scion of Darkness
Scourge of Kher Ridges
Sedris, the Traitor King
Sengir Nasferatu
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Siege-Gand Commander
Skyshroud Elf
Smokespew Invoker
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Sphinx of Lost Truths
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Sphinx of Uthuun
Spirit of the Night
Stalking Vengeance
Teferi
Terastodon
Thicket Elemental
Thornling
Thraximundar
Tidespout Tyrant
Transcendant Master
Triskelevius
Uktabi Kong
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampiric Dragon
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Willbender
Withered Wretch
Woodfall Primus
Wurmcoil Engine

Sorceries
======
Akroma's Vengence
All is Dust
Austere Command
Beacon of Immortality
Catastrophe
Conqueror's Pledge
Consuming Vapors
Crime/Punishment
Cruel Ultimatum
Crush of Wurms
Decree of Pain
Din of the Fireherd
Evangelize
Feudkiller's Verdict
Phyrexian Rebirth
Praetor's Counsel
Final Judgment
Forced March
Granny's Payback
Heroes Remembered
Jokulhaups
Kiss of the Amesha
Mind Spring
Obliterate
Plague Wind
Planar Cleansing
Promise of Power
Recurring Insight
Rite of Replication
Rout
Sorin's Vengeance
Time Stretch
Twisted Justice
Vengeful Rebirth
Violent Ultimatum
Void
Volley of Boulders

Enchantments
=========
Baneful Omen
Cast Through Time
Confiscate
Debtor's Knell
Fevered Convulsions
Holistic Wisdom
Maelstrom Nexus
Marshall's Anthem
Necrogenesis
Pernicious Deed
Planeswalker's Scorn
Psychic Posession
Take Posession
Thought Reflection

Artifacts
=====
Akroma's Memorial
Alladin's Ring
Altar of Shadows
Echo Chamber
Legacy Weapon
Mind's Eye
Mirari
Muse Vessel
Nihil Spellbomb
Obelisk of Alara
Oblivion Stone
Shield of the Ages
Soul Conduit
Tatsumatsu, Dragon Fang
Temporal Aperture
Tower of Eons
Tower of Fortunes
Vedalken Orrery

Planeswalkers
=========
Karn Liberated
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sorin Markhov

Lands
====
Diamond Valley
Karakas
Kor Haven
Maze of Ith
Miren, the Moaning Well
Prahav, City of Spires
Urza's Factory
Winding Canyons
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Choke
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« Reply #175 on: September 05, 2014, 04:13:29 AM »

Sorry for this necro,

since I've been now on sick leave for more than 2 weeks, I've had plenty of times to read into all kind of different variant formats, and I wondered why nobody has posted their stack or updates since ages?

I've taken plenty of stuff (which just looked cool or over the top) out of my junk/trade binders and wondered what people currently had in their stacks.
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