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 1 
 on: Today at 09:32:47 AM 
Started by Shax - Last post by MaximumCDawg
Colorado still does weekly sanctioned Vintage, well, bi-weekly at this point, but we're slowing down.  Need some new blood!

 2 
 on: Today at 09:32:08 AM 
Started by KanaKaishou - Last post by Samoht
More results for UW? NO WAI

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46617.msg648525;topicseen#msg648525

Anything to add to your statement that the archetype is overrated?

If putting two players in the top 8 of a 23 player tournament is great for this archtype then I rest my case.

Anyway, I apologize if my comment offended any of you. It wasn't meant to do so. Furthermore, I do think that the "Kohler" versions of the deck are good, my criticism is mainly of the builds with Fact or Fiction and/or Spirit of the Labyrinth which I find really overrated.

2/2 players in top 8 with the winner of the event being one and beating the other is pretty darn good. Considering there are less than 10 events a year that break the 40 player threshold we need to be able to extrapolate from smaller events. If this was the only time UW did well than I'd get behind you and say it's an irrelevant data point. However, this is just another mark in favor of the archetype in a long list of marks. Top 4 of a 90 person event is pretty good. Top 8 of a 230 person event is pretty good. Top 8 of a 75 person event is pretty good. It's not like this is the first time there's been a performance


Now, you're backpedaling a bit which is good. You started out hating on UW in general but have narrowed it to UW Spirit/FoF. We can talk about that particular build a bit if you'd like. Craig Berry, Rich Shay, Brian Coval, and a small part of myself(couldn't get the cards so I played another brew) interacted to build Dance Magic Dance (Rich's name) for the MVPLS Invitational. 3 people played the deck in the event, all 3 made the elimination rounds. They played Spirit as a hoser to Gush and as such had to cut Jace because of the negative synergy - leaving them with FoF. Two of them lost to Stoneforge Mystic UW because it enabled stronger mulligans. As SFM also skirts SoL, they later reworked the deck later to add it in. That said, Rich discovered Night's Whisper Control Slaver and has aggressively been playing that while Craig doesn't get around to events much. I've been on StifleStill and I think Coval has been playing other formats. I'll give you that Spirit isn't right for every metagame. That said, Vasu's deck has never sported the card and I'm not sure how it got dragged over here as the last bastion of UW hate you had left.

 3 
 on: Today at 09:14:08 AM 
Started by The Atog Lord - Last post by Samoht
We run Moat, Humility, and Council's Judgment. Trust me when I tell you that TNN nor Goyf scares us all that much. Also, unless you are Cavern'ing your TNN in we can crush it.

These are, in fact, cards you can board in. They're all mediocre in the matchup (OK, Humility less so, but I stand by my point). The game doesn't revolve around TNN. It revolves around Delver and Pyromancer. You're right in saying that TNN and Goyf aren't the scary parts, but the answers you've suggested--while they are things which are likely to be in the board, and do the functions you suggest they do, aren't exactly the bombs they are in other places. Even Supreme Verdict is awkward--you're often trading 1 for 1 and 4 mana for a 1 for 1 is not where I want to be. 4 mana awkward spells are already sketchy in Vintage (welcome to the deck!), but when they aren't absolute game winners (like Moat against Merfolk), I'm a lot less excited.

I suspect why I'm a little stumped is that I'm trying to find a single angle which solves a deck which attacks on multiple angles. The best answer I've actually found is still Ghostly Prison, but it's just too middling against anything not named Pyromancer Delver. If we look to Legacy for answers, the best "strategically advantaged deck" against Delver is something like Jund or Shardless BUG, which play enough removal not to die, have Wastelands and Deathrite Shaman to fight the mana denial axis, and have a ton of raw card advantage in cascade creatures. I don't know if you can configure U/W to fight like that, though, even thought you don't have to fight along the mana denial axis.

Idk if we land Moat the only card to fear is Delver. That seems strong. Ghostly Prison actually applies favorably against Dredge as well. I don't know how comfortable I'd be cutting some Dredge hate for it but it's something to consider.

 4 
 on: Today at 09:08:03 AM 
Started by The Atog Lord - Last post by KanaKaishou
(Delver basically can't beat batterskull in play)

Having tested a ton of games against different variations of UW Control using Delver, I can confidently say that this statement is not true. I can usually beat Stoneforge the first game, and post board, when I bring in Grudges and True-names, it becomes even easier. Stoneforge is more of a problem for the pyromancer versions, because young Pyromancer can do almost nothing against Batterskull. Generally speaking, Tarmogoyf is a much better threat against your deck, and usually blanks batter skull by itself, but it can be answered.

I was mostly worrying about the Pyromancer version. My opinion on the RUG version is that the right way to fight is to simply have like 6 Swords effects (+Snapcaster, +Your own counters to defend), and consistently be able to just kill their creatures. I'd also quibble about "you beat Stoneforge in game 1". It happens often, yes, but it's usually because Stoneforge Mystic dies, and I'm left with this 5 cost uncastable in hand. When everything goes to plan, it's pretty tough to beat, even with a Goyf, because some other creature picks up the Skull, and bashes you with it, Goyf or not.

Post board, I fully accept that Grudge et. al are going to mess up the "Make batterskull, win" plan, and that's why I'm looking for the right answer.

I've actually tried TNN against Delver, but the problem is that it often puts you into a racing situation against Pyromancer, and it usually loses that race. Very, very awkward.

We run Moat, Humility, and Council's Judgment. Trust me when I tell you that TNN nor Goyf scares us all that much. Also, unless you are Cavern'ing your TNN in we can crush it.

These are, in fact, cards you can board in. They're all mediocre in the matchup (OK, Humility less so, but I stand by my point). The game doesn't revolve around TNN. It revolves around Delver and Pyromancer. You're right in saying that TNN and Goyf aren't the scary parts, but the answers you've suggested--while they are things which are likely to be in the board, and do the functions you suggest they do, aren't exactly the bombs they are in other places. Even Supreme Verdict is awkward--you're often trading 1 for 1 and 4 mana for a 1 for 1 is not where I want to be. 4 mana awkward spells are already sketchy in Vintage (welcome to the deck!), but when they aren't absolute game winners (like Moat against Merfolk), I'm a lot less excited.

I suspect why I'm a little stumped is that I'm trying to find a single angle which solves a deck which attacks on multiple angles. The best answer I've actually found is still Ghostly Prison, but it's just too middling against anything not named Pyromancer Delver. If we look to Legacy for answers, the best "strategically advantaged deck" against Delver is something like Jund or Shardless BUG, which play enough removal not to die, have Wastelands and Deathrite Shaman to fight the mana denial axis, and have a ton of raw card advantage in cascade creatures. I don't know if you can configure U/W to fight like that, though, even thought you don't have to fight along the mana denial axis.

 5 
 on: Today at 09:05:01 AM 
Started by ErtaiAdept - Last post by ErtaiAdept
Final standings for last nights event!  10 Players - 4 Rounds of Swiss

1st - Adrian Becker w/ Burning Long
2nd - Caleb Neufeld w/ Dredge
3rd - Mike Mcgeachie w/ DOOMSDAY
4th - Chris Ferry w/Mono-White

 6 
 on: Today at 09:00:51 AM 
Started by ErtaiAdept - Last post by ErtaiAdept
It's about Time!

So it's been a bit of a delay since we last hosted a larger caliber event at Pandemonium.  I had to go and get married so that took up a lot of my time.  However, do not fret because we have another event!  Saturday September 4th come down to Pandemonium to sling cards for fabulous prizes!


How do you play you ask?


WHERE:
Pandemonium Books and Games
4 Pleasant Street
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 547-3721


WHEN:
Saturday September 4th  

The event begins at 12pm. Registration starts at 11:00.

WHAT:Main Vintage Event!
$30 entry fee
10 Proxy free with Entry fee with the option to buy 5 additional proxies for $1 each
Decklists required.



PRIZES!

Guaranteed!

We will continue to offer the same 1k guaranteed prize support for this event. Pandemonium as usual will be stocked with vintage staples for your purchasing pleasure.

Tarmogoyfs
Dark Confidants
Dual Lands
Force of Wills
Fetch Lands
Wastelands
Etc, Etc, Etc, you get the idea.

Your credit will not go to waste.

1st Paid entry to the NYSE Open II (Plus Addition credit from prize pool)






PROXY RULES:

Acceptable Proxy Methods:
    1. Full Card Printed on Card Stock.  (ie: you blanked a normal magic card and then ran it through a printer.)
    2. Clearly Hand written fully blank card.     (ie: You blanked a normal magic card and then neatly hand wrote all relevant information on it.)
    3. Relevant Information neatly written on a basic land with Sharpie

**Note: Relevant Information is defined as follows:
    1. Card Name
    2. Mana Cost
    3. Card type
    4. Full card text or a reasonable abbreviation
    5. Power/Toughness/Loyalty where applicable

Failure to provide adequate proxies will result in a warning or game loss should a judge need to be called.  I hate to be so harsh on this, but a lot of players put a lot of time and effort into making their decks and expect some effort from their opponents.
If you have any questions regarding your proxies please approach myself or one of the other organizers or judges and have us check them before the tournament starts.

Linked to calendar. -Godder

 7 
 on: Today at 08:22:52 AM 
Started by KrauserKrauser - Last post by KrauserKrauser
If you don't frequent the art forums, you may not be aware of the series of Art quizzes that I have been prodcuing over the last few months.

In an effort to expand my horizons and inspired by Edge of Tomorrow, I did something a bit different for the Invasion Art Quiz.

I sincerely hope that you enjoy this new approach.

Magic Art 101 - The Invasion Begins!

How many deaths did it take you to seal the final portal?

Did you find all of the ways to die along the way?

As always, let me know what you think so I can make improvements to future quizzes.

 8 
 on: Today at 06:28:17 AM 
Started by KanaKaishou - Last post by Chubby Rain
More results for UW? NO WAI

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46617.msg648525;topicseen#msg648525

Anything to add to your statement that the archetype is overrated?

If putting two players in the top 8 of a 23 player tournament is great for this archtype then I rest my case.

Anyway, I apologize if my comment offended any of you. It wasn't meant to do so. Furthermore, I do think that the "Kohler" versions of the deck are good, my criticism is mainly of the builds with Fact or Fiction and/or Spirit of the Labyrinth which I find really overrated.

It really isn't that your comment caused offense - I don't think anyone was offended by it. It's that your comment did not contribute to the thread as you provided no reasoning behind you opinion. This post is better as you cite specific cards/builds that you find overrated but you still don't state why they are overrated.

 9 
 on: Today at 06:28:08 AM 
Started by hitman - Last post by ShamanBen
Couldn't play as a result of the event being on a Saturday but I did eventually show up and grind some games afterwards for a couple hours. I love seeing vintage in Michigan again.

 10 
 on: Today at 02:53:50 AM 
Started by Calvin240sx - Last post by Calvin240sx
Prizing info for the legacy portion:

Legacy Prizes: The Moxen are all slightly condition adjusted.

1st Black Lotus
 2nd Time Walk, Ancestral Recall
 3rd Mox Sapphire, 2x Underground Sea
 4th Mox Jet, 2 Underground Sea
 5th Mox Pearl, 2 Volcanic Island
 6th Mox Ruby, 2 Volcanic Island
 7th Mox Emerald, 2 Tundra
 8th Timetwister, 2 Tundra

 9th-12th Tropical Island, Taiga
 13th-16th Bayou, Badlands
 17th-20th Scrubland, Plateau
 21st-24th Savannah
 25th-64th 1 Fetchland

Vintage: (All Cash)
1st: $500
2nd: $300
3rd/4th: $200
5th-8th: $100
9th-16th: $50

Modern: (All Cash)
1st: $1,200, Qualification for a StarCityGames.com Invitational, 10 Open Points, Exclusive StarCityGames.com Playmat, Top 8 pin
2nd: $600, Qualification for a StarCityGames.com Invitational, 8 Open Points, Exclusive StarCityGames.com Playmat, Top 8 pin
3rd-4th: $400, Qualification for a StarCityGames.com Invitational, 6 Open Points, Exclusive StarCityGames.com Playmat, Top 8 pin
5th-8th: $200, 4 Open Points, Exclusive StarCityGames.com Playmat, Top 8 pin
9th-16th: $100, 3 Open Points, Exclusive StarCityGames.com Playmat
17th-32th: $50, 2 Open Points
33rd+: 1 Open Point

Cheers,
Cal


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