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Single-Card Discussion

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  Memory Jar in Shops
  • John Cox

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  I ran it today in my sideboard for an invitational where I was expecting to see a lot of shops matches. I had it once and it did exactly what I expected - drew it mid game, played it while I was slightly behind on the board and just flipped the board state completely. Unfortunately I missed 2 sacs to a ravager later that cost me the game. But if not for memory jar, I would have lost probably 2 turns later. Instead we went another good 8-9 turns.
  I rather enjoyed having it in my side for the mirror. I dont believe I would want it against any other match up. This is also the first time in 2 years I've run shops so I'm hardly an experienced pilot.

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  Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade
  • 13NoVa

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  Lavinia fits best (as in it is her natural home) in the 5C Human version that goes for control and value (Sensei Top/Dack). However this deck did not see a lot of play since I left the scene. The more aggro control Human decks have seen some play according to mtgo goldfish.

  I don't think the classical aggro 5C Human decks would work very well right now. With this I am referring to the Mantis Rider lists without Force of Will.

  I think the only 2 versions that can do really well is the tempo oriented list with Force of Will and Null Rod (you all know merfolk.dec and the Humans deck that became popular in modern). The problem is that the Bazaar oriented decks are more efficient in doing this. However, it also have to be noted that a Human deck with Caverns can beat any Bazaar.dec because of Lavinia (soon), Containment Priest and artifact removal. I guess this is a matter of taste. It really comes down to whether you want Cavern or Bazaar against the rest of the meta. Bazaar does get the job done faster and more brutally, but Lavinia might be powerful enough to create an argument.

  Like I mentioned the TopDack (what I have been playing since 5 years) is also a strong option. This is the deck with broken plays. With the exception of some blue cards you are in fact a blue control ala grixis/mentor deck. You run full acceleration most of the time. But you run a unique 5C manabase with fetchlands to fuel Top and you benefit from Cavern to cast powerfull Human control cards like Kambal, Grand August 4, Monastery Mentor, Spellseeker, Containment Priest, Notion Thief, Snapcaster, JVP, Noble, Deathrites and so on. Usually you end up with approximately 15 creatures which you have chosen well to fit your play against the meta. Most of the times there are some non humans involved, like Shalai or Falkenrath. Shalai is a very interesting option to deny removal or an Oath activation. You can play with Tinker/TV/Key (key is good anyway because you run 2 or 3 tops) with a Blightsteel in SB. When running a Tinker I usually play Trinket Mage aswell and run 1 crypt main deck with also a Containment Priest main deck. This gives me game against Bazaar in game 1. You can also run Chalice with similar ideas. I mean, the options are endless honestly... And I believe that the biggest problem is occupying the slots with cards that have as much versatility as possible. And Lavinia is going to deliver. The slots that she will be sitting in, will be well spend.

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  [RNA] Cinder Lash
  • fsecco

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  @evouga The issue with Kambal is that while his drain effect is more powerful, the colors that he is in lack reach. I was literally running OG Kaya in a Kambal control list (metagamed against PO and Blue Cantrips) in part because I found the drain effect to be synergistic and won several games with Kambal holding back Pyromancer tokens while Kaya drained the opponent.

  Cinderlash is a less powerful drain effect but it is a harder to remove permanent for most decks and in the same colors as Lightning Bolt. I honestly don't think the card is insane against PO, but against previous versions of Blue Cantrips, I've run Snapcaster + Fiery Confluence as a win condition. I think you are underestimating how drawn out those games can be and how the life loss from Phyrexian Mana, Force of Wills, and Fetchlands can add up.

  I don't like the card against Shops, Eldrazi, or Survival, but it's not dead there. I think you forgot to mention that you can pick off Hollow Ones out of survival. But while you are listing reasons why you consider the card to be unplayable, to me it's mostly just what I would consider metagaming. I would only play this in a heavy blue metagame. Probably one with Oath as well.

  Card evaluation and brewing is mostly about identifying decks in which a card's potential is maximized and a metagame in which a card a card's effect is desirable. That might not be none of the current decks or the current metagame. So it goes.

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  [RNA] Salamander Drake
  • Protoaddct

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  @john-cox Incidentally, I went to MTGGoldfish to look up Cryptic Serpent and a couple RUG delver lists played it as a 1 of. Kind of makes sense, as it preserves the graveyard for Nimble Mongoose and Tarmogoyf. Salamander Drake would likely be better due to evasion, but this is another potential shell for the card, and situation where one would look to Salamander Drake over cards like Gurmag Angler.

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  [RNA] Sphinx of the Guildpact
  • Thewhitedragon69

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  If you are playing shops you have ravager, so I would still rather have wurmcoil because you can sac it for tokens in response to plow and is cheaper.

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  [RNA] Electrodominance
  • Thewhitedragon69

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  Side comment not directly related to Electrodominance: even when played fairly, Ancestral Vision is quite strong on its own in the control mirror and probably underrated in Vintage. Suspending it in the early game sets up an explosive turn in the late game, and unlike Restore Balance, say, your opponent cannot plan for it very effectively. They can try to counter it of course, but they will need to do so during your upkeep, and unlike Ancestral Recall, Ancestral Vision is immune to Misstep, and unlike Treasure Cruise it is not an appealing Mana Drain target.

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  [RNA] Sphinx of Foresight
  • fsecco

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  @protoaddct You'll have to evaluate how often it's a dead draw for you, much like other "Leylines". Also I don't think the card is only applicable when you're looking for a combo, it's great when you want to make your next turns good. Imagine that Xerox scenario I wrote here, but you're playing against MUD. If you see a Volcanic and an Ancient Grudge on top, you're probably not going to spend your counters on their creatures, only FoWing their Sphere if they play one. The information it gives you is on par with Gitaxian Probe imo.

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  [RNA] Deputy of Detention
  • Protoaddct

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  @serracollector said in [RNA] Deputy of Detention:

  How often in Vintage is this gonna hit more than 1 thing outside of Tokens? 2 sphere's maybe? But this seems very hard to cast through multiple sphere's, so idk what it would even be used for. Reflector Mage and Counterspell Spirit both seem better in the same colors, and better creature type. As well as Jailer already mentioned.

  You snag a sphere with until they drop a ballista and shoot it. Or they just attack thru and he dies blocking any creature in the deck that has received a counter from steel overseer. This card just has no place in vintage.

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  [RNA] Dovin, Grand Arbiter
  • fsecco

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  @aelien actually his -1 supports his +1, which in turn supports his ultimate. It's... clunky. The only way Dovin sees play is if we actually get a UW heavy Lavinia Humans that can't support Dack. Even then, I'd say Recruiter of the Guard is probably a better card for the slot.

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  [RNA] Tithe Taker
  • Naixin

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  Feels like at best this is a SB card for Humans against Blue decks. Which is to say that it will see about 0.0003 of the meta.

  The fact that it really only weakly protects you from their counterspells, and makes it slightly harder to waste you on their turn, or deathrite or whatever, means you won't see it alongside those Thalia-taxing aggro decks. 2 mana for a 2/1 is just too inefficient.

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  This topic is deleted!
  • craw_advantage

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  Aminatou, the Fateshifter
  • moorebrother1

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  @topical_island Your avatar's expression looks like mine when I saw your post

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  Surgical Extraction
  • Aelien

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  Surgical is pretty good if you run a lot of them. When I was trying it out in my sideboard, I felt that I needed to draw it early on in the game, and consistently throughout the game in order to really control the game. It sucks when you draw Surgical after all of their Vengevines, Narcomoebas (if against Dredge), etc. are already in play. But you effectively take away one of their game plans (the one you dislike the most) if you have it in your opening hand or draw it turn 1 or 2.

  The decks you're going to use Surgical against usually don't have as many Mental Missteps in hand as a blue deck would, even if they run 4. I tried including 4 Surgicals + 2 Extirpates in my sideboard (taking all other graveyard hate out) one day for shits and giggles, but they could completely destroy their graveyard, library and hand. Also, Surgicals aren't that bad against topdeck aggro decks like WEldrazi, as long as you have some removal.

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  Read the Runes
  • Tittliewinks22

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  @tittliewinks22 Do you mean this as an enabler for Eggs? Sac a bunch of moxes/land, draw a bunch of cards, cast second sunrise, repeat?

  Pretty similar to Paradoxical Outcome, and can return an Academy over and over, but PO does this without being reliant on the graveyard.

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  [GRN] Experimental Frenzy
  • fsecco

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  @peach I'm taking a bit of a break from vintage with Cube season on MTGO in full swing. The more I've played with the card though, the more I think there is a middle-of-the-road variant out there that runs force of will and is less all in on the combo. Is passing with Force of Will on top of your deck bad? Is using Top to set up lines several turns away bad? There is more subtlety with the card than was first apparent. It should be interesting to explore.

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  [GOR] Niv-Mizzet, Parun
  • evouga

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  @chubbyrain I accept your apology, and struck the comment.

  Regarding Niv in Oath, Brian has had some issues with the card, mainly because the draw ability is not optional and there were times where he'd Oath low into Niv and then get decked by Xerox. I think Brian is still going back and forth with his deck for champs as Xerox is really Oath's worst matchup and the Oath into Niv plan has that flaw against Xerox. Castability has not been a concern though. Is a UUURRR spell really harder to hard cast than a 4BBBB spell? Oath still manages to cast Griselbrand a fair amount of the time.

  I agree that castability is not a big concern, but I'm surprised Brian is having trouble with Xerox---my worst performance tends to be against Paradoxical Outcome (and White Eldrazi, of course, which is fortunately rare these days). I'm running a Memory's Journey, which helps a lot with getting decked (both due to Niv's triggers, and bad luck Oathing) and can surprise some Dredge and Survival pilots.

  I think the biggest downside I have found with the card is its vulnerability to Karakas. All three creatures I play are Legendary, so I really need the Inferno Titan in the sideboard.

  I agree. Karakas is supremely annoying. I'll board in Blazing Archon (rather than Inferno Titan, as I like the Archon better vs Dredge and Survival) and Pithing Needle, but I do miss Inferno Titan sidestepping this annoying land completely.

  As for the performance of the deck, I played it in the Romancing the Stones tournament last weekend and went 3-2 (losing twice to PO, at least one due to poor mulligan decisions on my part). Online my record is 1x 5-0, 3x 4-1, 3x 3-2, 1x 2-3. So I'm not sure I'm ready to claim the deck is Tier 1, but certainly does not deserve a reputation as a terrible/unplayable deck by any means.

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  Spell Snare - Time for a comeback?
  • craw_advantage

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  I tried EW tp8 landstill decklist with an additional Spell Snare in the main and it was golden. However, I played mainly vs. Oath, Jeskai and Pyromancer lists.

  At first I was a little reluctant to try it, but playing with 4 MM and 2 Snapcasters, the Snares are "always" protected. I was really impressed by the performance of the card and the "security" it provides when holding it specially in a deck with so many counters.

  I would try to upwards it to 3 if possible as you want it to be a hard counter in turns 3+ vs. Xerox style lists.

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  Taigam, Ojutai Master
  • Rat3dE

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  @pugsuperstar

  In a format maindecking Pyros and stp, it is a really a “Brian Kelly in XMas Land special” (as Chubby and Diophan say) to have him going (even if you have Last Word MMs). I have played against testing mate Antoni Sànchez who plays it in LCV with 1-2 Caverns and it is a real nightmare if you play blue, but it could be any other thread in the Xerox shell.

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  Ultimate Masters
  • John Cox

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  Since wotc have gone back on every single promise they've made over the years, except one, maybe this is a sign that it's getting closer to abolishing the reserved list
  Honestly, the number of people that would be happy without the RL would vastly exceed the number of people that still want it in place.
  The whole reason for Master sets and Masterpieces were to satisfy the players wanting more reprints. Obviously selling more product along the way.
  They proved, not explicitly, that original printings of cards can retain higher value over newer printings, save foil versions. Especially in the long run.
  At least from My observations.

  My two cents.

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  Misdirection
  • Rat3dE

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  I've used Misdirection in various decks over the last year and a half. I had the most success with it in Oath, and some with Xerox. I do not think that Xerox wants this card at all. Oath could probably play one, but the metagame would probably need to be rather blue with even Survival being the blue version. Otherwise, the card is far too narrow. Even when I do include it in the deck, I can go entire leagues without using it once. I either do not draw it, or I draw it after it would have mattered.