Un cards are so ridiculous (this one isn't actually that bad), that including Un sets in Vintage almost makes me want to quit Magic. If I was playing a Vintage deck and my opponent played Rock Lobster or something, I'd just scoop and walk out.

@schmakt I tested this and it was just not good enough in the meta. If you are only hitting instants and sorceries then you are too weak against creatures and planeswalkers. Too many of the good spells are just one of's anyway.

I'd rather have a second Force of Negation or play Pyroblast. I have been testing 4 flusters for the Doomsday and Tinker match ups and that is working out better than this card.

Honestly, play An Offer You Cannot Refuse or Spell Pierce may be better than this card right now.

This card seems very strong.

Shame that this won't trigger after a first turn Bazaar activation.

So bear with me, but how many lords does the list need? I'm of the mindset now that LOA may have run its course as a 4 of in Merfolk lists. We already have Master of the pearl trident as a strict upgrade and LOA does carry liability in the mirror. I think in most matches you would sooner want one hexcatcher and one LOA variant in play over 2 LOAs or 2 Hexcatchers.

I somehow doubt the 1/1 stats vs the 2/2 stats are the breaking point for this card when you consider the full package, and the 1U casting cost is also a non trivial upgrade to the lord when you consider Magus of the moon or a bad opener with too many wastelands.

Another trick with Pyroblast I used to see when Dack Fayden was more popular was people ultimateing Dack, then Pyroblasting whatever to steal it.

@optionparalysis

Yes but that one only hurts also @BlindTherapy valid point.

If only Workshop mana could be spent on abilities, too...

@protoaddict Whew! Glad that is not as I thought. I read it as just playing a free "copy" on the stack. That would have been absurd. Card is meh, then.

@protoaddict said in [DMU] Rundvelt Hordemaster:

It occupies the same space as snoop without being named snoop, so you can run a 5th+ copy that can also combo off (albeit differently) and help prevent you from losing to a surgical extraction. I would not be shocked to find players running 6-8 copies of this type of effect, it kinda just depends how well this plays out after testing I think.

In the lens of Rundvelt Hordemaster as a combo piece, calling it a piece of redundancy isn't necessarily valid since it takes a sacrifice outlet and a disposible Goblin in order to start the chain that Conspicious Snoop starts by itself. Plus the redundancy that the deck actually wants is Goblin Recruiter, and that redundancy is handled by Goblin Matron. Rundvelt Hordemaster is the Laboratory Maniac to Conspicious Snoop's Thassa's Oracle, where Goblin Recruiter is the Doomsday and the former kill requires more parts than the latter.

To reiterate both of our non-combo points, it's still a nice tool for odd cases. Feel free to get that single copy in there to tutor for.

I loved this card in Type 2... I really wish they had the option to restrict instead of ban...
I wanted to be able to make it work in T1... mostly for bouncing my own spell back and pulling some Flusterstorms out of my opponents' hands, but I couldn't quite find a place for it. Hoping that the Lesson mechanic comes back and includes something worth grabbing...

@revengeanceful I'm not totally up to date with what a mana ability is anymore but no you should not be able to counter a lotus or moxen or sol ring with this because they do not use the stack, they just instantly resolve so long as there are no targets on the mana ability.

The things that it does counter that are pretty interesting are Oath, Survival, Time Vault, Voltaic Key, a bunch of the Tormods Crypt analogues. I believe it can also kill Urza's saga as soon as they play it and trigger the lore counter being added to it, before they can even squeeze it for mana.

Card is completely nuts. Trying it out in everything to figure out the best home

@babau Maybe? Previous cards that tried to stop Storm by being painful still let the Storm player go off and so they were far less powerful than cards that STOPPED the Storm player. At least this one guarantees lethal damage before the Storm count gets to 9. As turn 1 off a Workshop, I could see it if you needed a narrow answer to Storm.

@serracollector It's a house in Standard, but I think Traxos just does what this wants to do but better. Yes, this has ward 2, but it doesn't have trample or "vigilance", requires 6 artifacts cast to be the same power of Traxos, and a Force of Vigor really still handles both since getting 2 mana available behind a FoV is small fries in Vintage.

@marland_moore Teferi can be used besides this, they have different play patterns and are not mutually exclusive.

Otwara is a land and therefor not pitchable, a strong attribute of this card, but again not mutually exclusive.

@botvinik This card would have been monster in 4x Karn days, but now that it got the axe, it's have to be a UG fish deck if anything. Otherwise, swan song is just better...or spell pierce.

@botvinik said in [NEO] Boseiju, Who Endures:

I'll agree that they DID live in a world alone. Now, I think, they have a new addition to that party. As far as the 4-of inclusion of Boseiju, if you are running green, the first one is always, at worst, an untapped land. The second, at worst, is always an extra green mana land drop for the turn (tap the 1st, sac it to the legend rule) that you can get back with crucible effects. The 3rd and 4th...assuming there's NO artifact, land, or enchantment in the matchup you want to blow up, just adds to your odds of drawing #1 and #2 early when needed. I suppose in those cases it is close to a dead card....but then again, there are equally and probably more cases where FoW is a blank.

The BEST case, you have 4x game wreckers in 1 card, whereas forces are a 1-for-2 (unless you pay 5, which nobody does). I think green is just a less played color in general, and it has no room in a UB storm deck, but if you lean on green at all, this card is assassin's trophy on crack.

There have been decks running blue that don't run FoW because they can't support the blue count to pitch-cast FoW. I'd be hard pressed to think of any deck running green that doesn't at least run 1x-2x Boseiju going forward. There have even been UBg storm/doomsday decks that splash just for assassin's trophy to stop null rod or other show-stoppers. This card is just 100x better.